Central Florida Fieros Forum

Fiero Discussion => Technical => Topic started by: lsfinn1 on December 23, 2012, 03:18:15 PM



Title: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on December 23, 2012, 03:18:15 PM
Hey Ya'll --
Well it warmed up a bit and I got a chance to check a few things out on my new coolant leak issue -- hoses and belt all seam tight, no leaking up front, but a slow steady leak from the engine area -- here are two photos from above and below -- I also checked error codes and fuses and all are OK.  What do ya'll think?? Do I need to start looking for a new water pump or are there other things I should check?

image from below
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20121223142743_zpsc5e36ca1.jpg)

image from above
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20121223142553_zps356ee42f.jpg)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Sparkys 88GT on December 23, 2012, 04:23:22 PM
My first guess would be the water pump.  Try feeling under the pulley at 5 to 7 oclock position and see if you have antifreeze there.  On the bottom side there is a small hole in the housing and that is where the leak will likely be coming from.  Fairly common issue for most cars with the age of ours for the pump seals to go bad.  Good news is they can be found very easily in all the local parts stores.....


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on December 24, 2012, 12:28:51 AM
Correct but remember we are boycotting Autozone

For this

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/autozone-fires-worker-who-stopped-robbery.html (http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/autozone-fires-worker-who-stopped-robbery.html)

Well I am anyway - Canceled my account and gave this as my reason


snippit - “I regard them as my family,” McLean said of his co-workers. “You’re not going to leave your brother or sister behind.” It’s a lesson he learned in the Air Force.

However Autozone doesn't have those kind of "Family Values" I reckon  }:(


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on December 24, 2012, 08:21:04 AM
Thanks for your input, Sparky and Pappy --
Looks like I'll be attempting to purchase (not from Autozone) and replace the water pump after Christmas, yuck  -- meanwhile any special tips or tricks I should be aware of before I dig in?  If everything goes well, I might even make it to the January meeting -- it's been 4 - 5 months since I've seen ya'll. 

Happy Christmas Eve ya'll -- Hope everyone has a great Holiday!!! :)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Old Lar on December 24, 2012, 09:28:54 AM
Just remember which bolts go in what hole.  If I recall there are a few different bolt sizes. 


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on December 24, 2012, 11:26:11 AM
Thanks Lar --
Yeah, seems that's a big theme, I've been researching the procedure all day -- looking at the pennock forum etc.  It looks a little intimidating and will probably take me a couple of days for sure ^^0^^.   8|


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Old Lar on December 24, 2012, 01:15:38 PM
I took the easy way out and had GT Service do the water pump on my 88.  They discovered a leak problem when it was in for service for some other issue.  I have a low frustration level when doing repairs on the Fieros, even though I do many, but only what I consider simple ones.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Sparkys 88GT on December 24, 2012, 08:25:54 PM
Need tone careful to not break these soon the timing cover while changing the pump. But on the other hand could be an opportunity to check the timing chain!!!!!


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on December 25, 2012, 08:40:51 AM
I took the easy way out and had GT Service do the water pump on my 88.    I have a low frustration level when doing repairs on the Fieros.


Merry Christmas Lar (and all my CFF friends)-- I find it frustrating also and would love to take 'the easy way' if we could afford it  8|.   But, DIY is a heck of a lot cheaper and I kind-of enjoy it (in all honesty, not sure what I'd do without the help of folks on this list ....thank you!  :).)
So, here's a link to the WP I plan to pick up after Christmas -- http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_new-water-pump-toughone-or-gmb_5421721-p?searchTerm=water+pump#fragment-1 (http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_new-water-pump-toughone-or-gmb_5421721-p?searchTerm=water+pump#fragment-1)



Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on December 25, 2012, 08:51:02 AM
Quote from: Sparkys 88GT link=topic=2210.msg14091#msg14091 [/quote

Thanks Sparky -- Yeah I've been reading about that risk and have seen conflicting info on the best way to remove the pulley etc... :confused:   No doubt, I'll be asking ya'll lots of questions / sending photos etc  :)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Old Lar on December 25, 2012, 09:46:57 AM
Just make sure the water pump has a metal impeller not plastic as plastic will fail.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on December 26, 2012, 06:54:04 AM
Good morning my fiero friends -- Hope ya'll had a good Christmas. :) 
Before I get started on my Waterpump replacement project, I've been reading about the process (on pennocks mostly) and hope ya'll can help me clear up a couple of things ...... :confused:

Quote
Any holes that extend into the water jacket require that the bolt have a liberal amount of RTV on the end to seal the bolt threads. All other bolts should have a very light coating of engine oil. The small bolts going into the timing cover itself should have a thin coat of anti-seize to prevent electrolytic corrosion.
OK, I'm clear on the anti-seize and the RTV for the bolts, but .. should thread sealant be used in place of engine oil for the other bolts?? (see this link)  http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/117597.html

Also found this ....
Quote
(Don’t bother removing the battery shield and the junction box next to the battery. I did not do either and found that I still had sufficient room to work. )
Will this be easier or should I go ahead and remove these and take advantage of the opportunity to clean the wiring etc??

Next -- which of the below is correct???
Quote
Loosen and remove the four bolts holding the water pump pulley in place. There is no need to loosen the alternator belt.
 
Quote
access to the bolts is severely limited by the water pump pulley. The solution was to remove the pulley after removing the belt, before loosening any of the water pump bolts!

Thanks for your help guys -- I have a few more questions that I'll add a little later  8|


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on December 26, 2012, 07:27:20 AM
Hey everyone. We installed dodge runners belt tensioner today. We need a new alternator bracket for her car. First off the bolt thru the top of the alternator is seized tight and second the bracket broke in half. So if there is anyone out there with one we could sure use it. The unit is installed and works great but the bracket should be changed.

This was before tech day last year ...  do ya'll remember if a new alternator bracket was installed on the tech day (Feb last year) and / or will this be a factor I'll need to consider during the waterpump project?


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on December 27, 2012, 07:40:07 PM
Hey Ya'll --
Picked up the water pump (no plastic!!) this morning and hope to start something tomorrow (was in Jacksonville all day today).
I think I have everything I need, but have a 'dumb' question regarding torque?? We don't have a torque wrench... how important is this and should I invest in one?? (please forgive my 'ignorance')  8}
Sorry to keep bugging ya'll -- your help / advice is really appreciated.  :) 8|
Thanks again -- Laura


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: rpro on December 27, 2012, 09:11:28 PM
I don't think it's that critical, just use common sense and don't over tighten. Be especially careful of the two bolts around that "un-supported" area of the timing cover. I believe it's around the 11 o'clock position.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on December 28, 2012, 05:48:20 AM
Thanks RP


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Dragon on December 28, 2012, 08:43:20 AM
I don't think it's that critical, just use common sense and don't over tighten. Be especially careful of the two bolts around that "un-supported" area of the timing cover. I believe it's around the 11 o'clock position.

I like to find sleeves or nuts to use in that unsupported area to put between the pump and the engine


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Sparkys 88GT on December 28, 2012, 04:11:28 PM
Laura, considering your on going issue with the "fur ball" I myself would just go ahead and pull the timing chain cover and check the chain out. Not much more work and you would be able to rule out a worn timing chain. That's just my 2 cents worth on this.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on December 28, 2012, 07:55:12 PM
Laura, considering your on going issue with the "fur ball" I myself would just go ahead and pull the timing chain cover and check the chain out. Not much more work and you would be able to rule out a worn timing chain. That's just my 2 cents worth on this.

Sounds like a good idea Sparky, but Yikes way too scary! :confused:

I did get started today, mostly prep stuff so far -- I'm a virgin at this so take things slow and timid. Removed the battery and disconnected / moved wiring, EGR etc to clear some room for access.  OMG that wiring harness is a filthy mess I'll need to clean it before it's reconnected- and the furry insulation stuff near the battery is falling apart and needs to be replaced. Any suggestions for a good replacement material?  :confused: 

Still need to drain the coolant and remove the wheel before really starting on the water pump itself.  I find the coolant draining part rather intimidating .. will get on that in the morning. :)  Any advise on easiest way to do this?
BTW -- should I plan on replacing the belt or can I just clean the one it has now before I reinstall it?

Thanks again for your input --


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on December 28, 2012, 07:57:32 PM
I like to find sleeves or nuts to use in that unsupported area to put between the pump and the engine

Thanks Dragon,  Hmmmm... Not sure what you mean, can you send a pic?? :confused:


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on December 28, 2012, 08:06:26 PM
Torque is pretty important - Advance will loan you a Torque wrench  :)
Not sure why Marc hasn't jumped in on this - He would smack us all for even thinking of not torquing stuff
He pokes me in the eye with sharp sticks when I try to go Torque wrench-less  :O

Now with that said it would be better to under torque a bolt and have a leak than over torque a bolt and break it off

Isn't your belt new from the Dodgerunner mod?  :think:

Remember to take pics of things before you disassemble them and from different angles (even underneath) so you can refer back to them if you need to  :thumbsup:

I have faith in you - You can do it!  :dance:

P.S. Do you have a Chilton's Manual for your car? If you do they have a Coolant drain/fill section

P.S.S. Here is a link to the (REAL DEAL) the official Pontiac 1988 Fiero Service Manual - So cool of them Georgia Boyz to archive this stuff

http://www.fieronews.net/fusion/downloads.php?cat_id=6&download_id=33 (http://www.fieronews.net/fusion/downloads.php?cat_id=6&download_id=33)

Click on the little brown box at the bottom of the page

P.S.S.S Section 6B Engine Cooling is your huckleberry

 }:(


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on December 28, 2012, 08:39:47 PM
Torque is pretty important - Advance will loan you a Torque wrench  :)
Isn't your belt new from the Dodgerunner mod?  :think:
Remember to take pics of things before you disassemble them and from different angles (even underneath) so you can refer back to them if you need to  :thumbsup:
I have faith in you - You can do it!  :dance: }:(

Thanks for the help and the vote of confidence Pappy --You are too Sweet!  8|
Didn't know loaners were available, cool I'll look into that.  Or would it be better to just buy one?
Yes, the belt was new with the mod.   :)
Yep, been taking pictures and attaching pieces of tape with numbers to stuff, so I'll remember what goes where.   Regardless, I am certain I'll forget something. 8}

Thanks again and Happy New Year! :P


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on December 28, 2012, 08:50:37 PM
Well it's always good to have a Torque wrench in your tool box - Harbor freight had some on sale for 10 bucks here recently

Prolly Chinese tho

I'd loan you mine but the gas alone would cover the cost of you just buying one hehe



Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on December 28, 2012, 09:22:03 PM
Thanks again Pappy --
I think I can afford that!   
OK, here's another dumb 'girl' question  8} -- what should I drain the coolant into?  5 gallon bucket seems too tall, cut a couple in half maybe, or...should I pickup a special container (is there such a thing?).  It's these 'simple' things that drive me nuts  }:(  :)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: rpro on December 29, 2012, 08:22:59 AM
About any type of automotive drain pan will suffice. I happen to like the ones that can be sealed up. That way the fluid stays clean for re-use.

(http://www.heal-a-seal.com/PAN163B.jpg)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on December 29, 2012, 07:28:15 PM
Hey Fiero Friends --

Here's a progress update on the the 'bat water pump project' --

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20121229140453_zps4ecbb002.jpg)

finally got it jacked up and took the wheel off  -- any suggestions how to deal with this corrosion while the wheel is off the car? (http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20121229140558_zps4deacebf.jpg)

and whats the trick with these fasteners -- they are a PITA!  (http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20121229141245_zpsa085765d.jpg)

draining the coolant was a challenge  -- tried to remove the plug from the passenger coolant tube .. but rounded off the bolt -- (http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20121229161912_zps6b13f360.jpg).  
so decided to simply drain it at the radiator -- that darn 'petcock"  8|  is sure hard to reach.  Finally got it , but then then nothing would drain out.   :confused:   Duh -- all I had to do was open the thermostat housing.  (I had removed the thermostat earlier, but replaced the cap  8}.)

So with all that done (took all day) I finally started to work on removing the water pump pulley -- those bolts are tricky -- got one loosened, but the other three are tight.  Tried the 'screw driver wedge' to prevent the pulley from spinning - aarrrggggh.   I'll hit it again tomorrow - hopefully will have then pump off by New Years Eve!

hope ya'll are having a good weekend -- Good night for now... Laura


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Dragon on December 29, 2012, 10:47:44 PM
I like to find sleeves or nuts to use in that unsupported area to put between the pump and the engine

Thanks Dragon,  Hmmmm... Not sure what you mean, can you send a pic?? :confused:

I just find a nut that barely fits between the ear of the water pump and the block.   It's saved me from over tightening the ear and breaking it off.

Frank


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Dragon on December 29, 2012, 10:53:40 PM


and whats the trick with these fasteners -- they are a PITA!  ([url]http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20121229141245_zpsa085765d.jpg[/url])



Personally I hate those fasteners so I cut them of with a set of dykes and replace them with push pin fasteners.   My cars are not stock so I can do what I want.



Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: FieroGTLT1 on December 29, 2012, 11:19:30 PM
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Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on December 30, 2012, 12:15:02 AM
Autozone - Pappy makes his gurr face - I'm sure Todd could find a link to those tools at Advanced ;)

You can buy those  replacement fasteners at any Auto parts store - Take one in for match up because they come in lots of different sizes

However if you can get a thin blade between the Philips part and the beveled jacket you can twist a little pressure between the 2 parts enough to unscrew the Philips part a bit and pull it out, then the jacket will follow - Reinstallation is much easier, just line up the holes insert the jacket then insert the Phillips part

I would need to see up close what type of corrosion to give advice - If its on aluminium and pitting is an issue, all is not lost - Strip-clean-fill and paint or plasti dip (I'd go with plasti dip it comes in a spray can)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on December 30, 2012, 06:43:14 AM
Woo hoo - got page 3!  :P

Well for all those "looking" for me (Pappy) I've barely been a lurker here lately. Got a lot of "end of year" stuff on my plate I've been trying to clear up so I can start 2013 clean and fresh. But I digress.

Pappy's right, I'm a fan of proper torque particularly when gaskets and leakage are involved. Tool loaner programs are great, and having your own is good particularly if you plan on more DIY projects down the road. "Proper tool for the job" is an Engineer's watchword.

For coolant draining I usually skip the tube plug. After 25 years they're a PITA (as you've discovered). Removing these is a project unto itself. I usually just pull a hose here and there and let her all run out. I also like using the "old style" Permatex sealant on hoses and water pump gaskets for reassambly. Stays sticky over time and provides a good seal. Makes taking hoses back off a breeze. I know Pappy and the Space Center boys "love" RTV, me, not so much. I'm "old school" and Pappy and Dragon and Sparkys 88GT should appreciate that. Us old farts got to stick up for each other!  }:(

Use some PB Blaster on all those bolts for a day or two before you start. It'll help things greatly particularly around the battery and water stuff. A small wire brush is also a nice tools to have for old bolts before you start wrenching on them.

Those small plastic fasteners are not so bad once you get the "feel" for them. Helps to hold your tongue just right and alchoholic beverages are a big plus!  8)

I usually use a little bitty flat blade screw driver to help things get started and a carefull use of small side cutters to get behind them also helps. Usually takes two tools on the tough ones. Once they're out a good cleaning with soap and water and a little lite weight oil helps for reinstall. Some will undoubtedly have to be replaced, but it's easy to make a collection of the right ones from "any" Auto Parts' Store.

This would've/could've been a good Tech Day project for you for a show and tell and learning experience. Typically this is a one day job if you've done it before. The holidays are a tough time to organize though. Also, it could be a chance to further address that "furr ball" thing. Most of us could put together all the tools to pull the dampener and timing cover. How many miles on that car? Sparkys 88TG do you really think it could be a timing change issue? I've not found that many loose ones but I know others have? You've been close to this beast.

Just sayin.

Go to it girl, make us proud. If a follow up is needed we can put something together at "your place"!  :D

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on December 30, 2012, 02:54:04 PM
Hey Ya'll -- Got the pulley off and ready to start on the WP bolts, but -- does anyone have a pic that shows where to attach the bracket that clamps the timing cover to the cylinder block??  There are vague instructions and a diagram, but I can't make any sense of it and am at a loss for where to attach this thing..  }:( :confused:
Hope someone can clear it up for me....it's frustrating to 'not have a clue'  :(

Nevermind -- according to this post on PFF the bracket isn't needed... hope he's right ... :scared:   http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20100421-2-081914.html#p25 (http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20100421-2-081914.html#p25)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: FieroGTLT1 on December 30, 2012, 08:32:10 PM
.
 


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on December 31, 2012, 04:13:58 PM
Happy New Years Eve Ya'll --

thanks for the info on the pullers, etc.. Before we reinstall I'll pick up some new fasteners and a torque wrench ---

Here's what I did on the pulley to brace it while removing those bolts .. made it pretty easy --(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20121230121206_zpsc5343aa6.jpg)

Only 2 bolts to go on the pump removal -- 1 is stripped, the other is OK, but in a tight spot!  Bloody knuckles and little fiberglass, but almost there!

Couple of questions -- first regarding the timing chain thing, could that be related to the chronic gas smell / fur ball?  If so, should it be looked at / or replaced before putting things back together?  

Thanks for all of your help and advise -- will post a few more pics and some additional questions 'next year' -- meanwhile ya'll have a wonderful and safe New Year's Eve!



Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 05, 2013, 01:18:14 PM
Yippeee!  Finally got the pump off.  Had to report the good news!  Will post photos / details later! :cheerleader:


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Sparkys 88GT on January 05, 2013, 05:57:28 PM
If it were me I would check it. When we set the timing if floated around more than I liked to see but see if Marc will chime in on that.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 06, 2013, 05:21:35 AM
Whew, we're going back in time here. I don't recall how the timing acted when we first reset it. I'm not going to be much help with that.

The raw gas smell can come from several areas. We know the injectors were rebuilt, and we have the test data for no leakage, so that eliminates them. Sometimes the hook up to the cold start injector leaks, have you examined that area?

Otherwise, there's injector timing which comes from the ECM chip. These timing tables are updated over time according to how the car is driven. If the battery loses power, or is disconnected, the "learning" process has to start all over again! If you're not driving the car a lot, that may be a simple fix to the problem.

As I recall, we did a compression test on that engine, and ruled out leaking valves so there's not much else it could be. I believe we cleaned up the throttle body when we removed the intake, so even that may be eliminated as an issue.

Guess I'm not helping much here, but I just keep coming back to "get some miles" on that beast and then let's see how she acts.  :D

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 06, 2013, 09:18:36 AM
Good morning ---
Here are a few pics of our waterpump project -- although I finally got the old pump off, the bolt that was giving us trouble is still a problem as shown in the pics below --
we tried multiple methods to bust it loose, but nothing worked - the bolt would not budge At ALL.  so after reading through the what seems like a million PFF posts I finally broke down and Tom used a grinder on it.   8}
 
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20130105115405_zpsfdacfe24.jpg)(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20130105120604_zpsd39981cf.jpg)

Well, that worked to get the pump off, but the bolt is still threaded tight and will not budge.  The sparks from the grinder scared the heck out of me -- what with the chronic gas smell and all.   :O I was thinking maybe JBweld to attach a nut so we could use a socket. What do ya'll think??? :confused:
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20130105141238_zps482723b3.jpg)

Also found some pretty nasty rust near the rear wheel on the drivers side  :(
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20130101170915_zpse59a5550.jpg)(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20130101165527_zps7414b7de.jpg)

And one last question for now -- --- the new waterpump has this funky tube that's not on the old pump?  What is it and what do I do with it?  :confused:
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20121231112659_zps9b573b33.jpg)



Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: rpro on January 06, 2013, 10:36:16 AM
Laura,

JB welding a nut on will not work. Your best course of action at this point is to use a pipe wrench or large vice grips on the remaining stump.

As for the funky tube, simply replace it with the funky plug that's in your old pump. Be sure to use some teflon tape on the threads to prevent leakage.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 06, 2013, 10:45:07 AM
I would chime in and "strongly" agree with rpro the broken bolt needs removed and I would also tap chase all those holes before mounting the new pump.

I would further urge "caution" while grabbing hold of that bolt stump. If you break that off, you're looking at having to drill it out!! Not fun.

I would soak it good with PB Blaster for a couple of days. If you still can't "ease" it out (and I emphasize "ease"), then I would try hitting it with some heat on and off, and see if that helps break it loose. If you're unsure after that, then get somebody over there that's dealt with frozen bolts. You really want to get this out nice and clean, so you won't have any problems with the new pump.

Take some time and good luck.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on January 06, 2013, 07:29:18 PM
I think she might have been referring to attaching a nut with JB weld to continue with the removal of the stuck bolt

Here are some tips fer stuck bolts

1. PB Blaster it a lot for 2 days - Step 6 should be used with great caution
2. Try to loosen bolt - Use Step 3 or 4 which ever is applicable - Then proceed to Step 7
3. If their are threads on it put 2 nuts on and lock em together repeat Step 2
4. If it does not have threads but has a shaft - Tap & Die set - Manually thread shaft - Go to Step 3
5. Cuss at it for 10 to 25 seconds - Go to Step 2
6. Heat it up if you can with a torch - Go to Step 9
7. Hold tongue between teeth, slightly exposed and to the left corner of mouth - Go to Next Step
8. If step 3 or 4 was successful - Try an impact driver or impact ratchet to break it free - Go to Step 5
9. Go to Step 5
10. Remove engine install new LS7 crate motor




Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: FieroGTLT1 on January 06, 2013, 11:15:53 PM
.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 07, 2013, 04:52:33 AM
FieroGTLT1 don't encourage him!

This advice from a guy who has a shiny, detailed engine, clean enough to eat off of, but hasn't powered a car for . . . what . . . going on 2 years now!!  :(

Marc  ;)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: FieroGTLT1 on January 07, 2013, 04:14:09 PM
.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 07, 2013, 04:17:11 PM
I agree but you're talking to the wrong guy. I already helped him pull it out! Time for some others to step up!

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: FieroGTLT1 on January 07, 2013, 04:19:32 PM
.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 08, 2013, 10:39:35 AM
I think she might have been referring to attaching a nut with JB weld to continue with the removal of the stuck bolt

Thanks Pappy - that's exactly what I had in mind.   :).  Still thinking about it...

Your best course of action at this point is to use a pipe wrench or large vice grips on the remaining stump.

These devices and PB Blaster have been my weapons of choice  --  :P

I would chime in and "strongly" agree with rpro the broken bolt needs removed and I would also tap chase all those holes before mounting the new pump. I would soak it good with PB Blaster for a couple of days. If you still can't "ease" it out (and I emphasize "ease"), then I would try hitting it with some heat on and off, and see if that helps break it loose. You really want to get this out nice and clean, so you won't have any problems with the new pump.Take some time and good luck.Marc

Don't have a torch, but haven't given up yet ---
what is 'tap chase'??  :confused:





Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 08, 2013, 11:02:12 AM
Once all the bolts are out get a tap of the proper size(s) (I'd have to look up), and thread the tap into each of the holes to recut and cleanup the old threads like new.

All the old corrosion, rust, dirt and buildup from the last 25 years is thus eliminated so you start with clean and fresh mounting points for the new pump.

Hopefully with proper prep the new pump will last another 25 years.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on January 08, 2013, 11:09:30 AM

Don't have a torch, but haven't given up yet ---
what is 'tap chase'??  :confused:



That's a fancy way to of saying make sure all your threaded holes are clean and straight before you install the pump and/or bolts  :)

You can use a Tap & Die Set or a Thread Chaser Tool  8)

Tap from Tap & Die Set shown in below pic fer reference  :D

(http://image.carcraft.com/f/techarticles/9193765++w750+ar1/116_0404_02_z+ARP_thread_chaser+detail.jpg)

Actual Thread Chasing Tool Set

(http://www.bikernet.com/news/images/PhotoID38562.jpg)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 08, 2013, 03:53:07 PM
Thanks Marc and Pappy --
Makes perfect sense -- good advice.   :)
Hey Pappy, can you elaborate a little on step 4 .... [4. If it does not have threads but has a shaft - Tap & Die set - Manually thread shaft - Go to Step 3] :confused:
Still no budge on the stuck shaft.    :(








Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 08, 2013, 05:28:41 PM
I say enough with all this writing back and forth.

It's time for a "brief" Tech Day at the bat cave!  :O

I would limit the job to removing the broken bolt and cleaning up the threaded holes. (We can all bring our tools)!

Then would be a tour of the "bat cave" and a cruise to some suitable restaurant for refreshments. (Perhaps Sparkys 88GT could help with that since we'll be in his neck of the woods!  8)

No costs to Isfinn just her hospitality and a guided tour into the mysteries of bats.

What say you all?

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 08, 2013, 06:27:45 PM
Too awesome Marc, that would be great!!  8|  I can't thank you enough.  8|
I was just getting ready to JB weld a couple of bolts onto the shaft, hoping it would allow me to use my ratchet - but, I'll hold off on that method for now.   8}

I assume weekends are preferred over weekdays?  How's Saturday (or Sunday)?
I owe you guys and I'm happy to provide beverages and maybe Chinese takeout or Pizza if you'd like Plus a personal tour of the "bat cave".  Hopefully everyone will hang around long enough to watch our bats exiting the bat houses (currently over 3000 bats leave ~17:50,! you can view our live batcam at http://flybynightinc.camstreams.com/ (http://flybynightinc.camstreams.com/))


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on January 08, 2013, 06:50:17 PM
Skip to about 1:44 into the video :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6DDhw191MLo#t=104s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6DDhw191MLo#t=104s)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: FieroGTLT1 on January 08, 2013, 07:34:41 PM
.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 09, 2013, 04:13:29 AM
Cool info-video Pappy, Thanks --  :)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 09, 2013, 06:11:54 AM
God Pappy, that video was a yawner!  :sleepy:

No music, no jokes, nobody got shot or had to run away from zombies!! Come on!

Isfinn, I'm going to shoot for around 10:00 am Saturday. You need to PM me your address and contact information. Barb's coming along.

No food please, we're going to find somewhere to eat afterwards. Don't know if we'll hang around for the bat migration, but look forward to a tour just the same.

Hope some others will join in.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: fierogt87 on January 09, 2013, 06:22:40 AM
Was out of work sick Monday, xx( will have to make it up on Saturday so won't be able to make it. :(


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 09, 2013, 06:24:57 AM
Does anyone know the bolt size or sizes for the water pump so I bring the right tap?

Looks like there's 5 in all?

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 09, 2013, 08:02:24 AM
I have a diagram I'll post a little later -- there are 12.   8}


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 09, 2013, 09:35:36 AM
Hey Marc --
Hope these help.
Found this diagram on PFF awhile back --
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/WaterPumpBoltDiagram_zps823e15a6.jpg)

Here's a photo of the bolt types that have been removed (multiples of each, 12 bolts - 5 sizes)
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20130109101241_zps9a947cb2.jpg)

and here's the 'headless' stump that remains tightly lodged
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20130109101425_zps10a119cf.jpg)

Thanks so much for offering to come out here and help this weekend.  I'll PM our physical address, etc.  in a minute or two.  :)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Old Lar on January 09, 2013, 09:38:26 AM
Address will be helpful.. Someone wiped out an AT&T box in the neighborhood, so I have my non AT&T cell phone, but no DSL as they have been working on repairs for a week. :O


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 09, 2013, 09:54:32 AM
Hey Lar and Marc --
Sent PM with info  :TY:


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 09, 2013, 01:59:53 PM
Isfinn1 the pics tell it all. Good find. I don't know what engineer dreamed up that selection of bolts. Hope they fired his ass. Unfortunately it doesn't give the thread sizes. Does anyone know if torx threads are determined by torx size? Any clue what they would be?

Looks like the majority are torx bolts. I'll bring my sockets. Looks like we'll need some heat to hopefully pull that bolt. I'll bring the tools.

At some point you'll have to replace that broken bolt, but that can wait for when it's out.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 09, 2013, 02:35:29 PM
Hey Marc --
The general theme regarding waterpump bolts on PFF is to replace the Torx with standard bolts.  That's been my plan and I thought I'd take them up to Lowes or Ace --- will that effect the threads?  :confused:

Awhile back Sparky suggested looking at the timing .. how much of a bear is that and is it worth doing?
Right now I'm cleaning  things up -- it's pretty crusty. 8|


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 09, 2013, 03:32:22 PM
If you're going to Ace for replacement bolts, they'll give you the thread sizes for all of them. Post them when you have them and I'll line up the right taps.

I'll bring some dies to try and thread that bolt first. We can try jam nuts first then go from there. Keep soaking that thing with PB Blaster till Saturday.

We can scope out the timing change inspection but the first order of business is get that bolt out.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Sparkys 88GT on January 09, 2013, 07:47:04 PM
Marc I will check my engine I am building currently for the correct tap size. Also if there isn't enough of the bolt sticking out to use a pipe wrench lets just pull the timing cover. That will give alot more access to the bolt and also allow the timing chain to be looked at. Someone just please bring the proper puller for the damper.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 09, 2013, 11:42:38 PM
Hey Ya'll---
Will try to get the replacement bolts tomorrow, hopefully it'll go smoothly.  8}
Marc -- I'll send you the specs when I get home.  

I also need a replacement for the hose that runs between the pump and the passenger side coolant tube.  Last year Sparky noted it was rubbing on the frame and tried to protect it some when the tensioner was installed.  It's in pretty rough shape, so I removed it today (had to use wire cutters on the old rusted clamp).  Does anyone know the name of that hose or maybe a part number?  

Also, I'm a little concerned about the passenger side coolant tube -- it's slightly crushed, the plug is stripped (see earlier post) and may be leaking (noticed this when I removed the hose from it today).  A new tube is way out of my budget ($200++) -- can it be straightened out or should I just JB weld the plug and leave it be?  
That's it for now -- Good Nite ya'll and thanks again for all your help ^^0^^


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 10, 2013, 05:17:32 AM
I've got a hub puller kit I can bring. I've also got a "small" pipe wrench ideal for this sort of thing (so much better than vise grips), I'll bring that too.

If you look at the picture I posted re: Nathrak's master cylinder repair, Frank has a timing cover in his "stash" of parts.

Anything else you think of post it.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on January 10, 2013, 05:12:16 PM
Sorry but I only had 1 day off this week and was Tuesday - Saturday I work 0545 to 1445 :(

Ace has a much better bolt selection than Lowe's in my opinion - That said I like the factory bolts (Wow this might be the craziest thing ev-ah - Marc wants after market and I like the OEM)  :pidu:

Pappy thinks the BEST way would be to thread that shaft and lock 2 nutz on it - From the pic it looks like it has plenty of area to put down some threads  }:(

I would take your old coolant hoses in to the auto parts store and tell em year make and model and use yours tubes as a guide and get ya some new hose clamps too  :thumbsup:

As a last resort - Generic but should work for engine to pipe applications
Gates Vulco-Flex® II - Radiator Hose
Part # 25251

Juan got his passenger side coolant pipe crushed by a tire store - They did a pretty good job of repairing it as I recall - Using coolant hose and cutting off the crushed part (It wasn't a stock replacement but would get the job done and Pappy thought it looked pretty good) I wish I would have taken a pic of it now to show you



Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 10, 2013, 08:53:17 PM
Got the new bolts -- Not as easy as I hoped, took a little driving around.  Ace suggested a place called Daytona Bolt and Nut in Deland -- cool place.  They had stainless steel hex head replacements for the Torx type bolts, here's a photo side by side --(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20130110184159_zps9888fcf3.jpg)

They didn't have the large bolt on the end, neither did Ace or Lowe's -- so Rust Reformer and a wire brush will have to do.   :)

Marc ..  I asked the guy to write down the bolt specs, I hope this makes sense
M6 x 25 1.0
M8 x 35 1.25
M8 x 70 1.25
M10 x 75 1.50


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 10, 2013, 10:56:35 PM
Keep soaking that thing with PB Blaster till Saturday. We can scope out the timing change inspection but the first order of business is get that bolt out. Marc

Hey Marc - I more than agree -- the bolt is job one at this point and I really appreciate your offer to lend a hand. :dance:  I keep soaking it and try to get it with the pipe wrench once in awhile, but no go.  Tonight I realized I could get Tom's drill in there and tried to use that to grab onto the stub, but still no budge.

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20130110231140_zps933acac5.jpg)

Sorry but I only had 1 day off this week and was Tuesday - Saturday I work 0545 to 1445 :(
I would take your old coolant hoses in to the auto parts store and tell em year make and model and use yours tubes as a guide and get ya some new hose clamps too  :thumbsup:


Sorry you gotta work Pappy, we're gonna miss you.   Yeah, Looks like I may be taking several hoses to the parts store.  It's scary -- the more I look, the more I find.  Looks like these two hoses below also need to be replaced.  Guess they'll come off tomorrow.  

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20130110230314_zpsc80238cd.jpg)
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20130110230141_zpsa294ecb5.jpg)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 11, 2013, 07:21:37 AM
Isfinn1:

Good, I'll go with the bolt sizes. Looks like we're lined up for Saturday. Old Lar's going to link up with me for Saturday so we'll have 3 or 4 to help.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 11, 2013, 09:16:07 AM
Sounds perfect, I think Sparky may come out also.  Call when you turn on our road and I'll meet you up at the gate (gotta keep it closed so no one gets out). Hopefully everything will go smoothly with that bolt and there won't be any surprises.  Meanwhile, let me know of anything I can do ahead of time - car prep, refreshments, etc....    :P   :TY:


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 13, 2013, 09:26:11 AM
A huge Thank You to Marc and his wife Barb, Lar, Sparky and Frank for coming out here yesterday to help me with that stubborn bolt --  :TY:

It took a lot of effort (mostly by Marc and Sparky), but here it is -- (http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20130113093021_zpscb4bff55.jpg)

Getting it out wasn't easy, however, and what started as a 'simple' waterpump replacement has become a much more complicated project  --- :scared:
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20130113093343_zpsfc49758b.jpg)

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20130112130853_zps80bf173c.jpg)

Turns out the damper (?) was broken, the chain 'slipped a gear' and the timing was off by 2 - 3 'gears' (is that right??).  So thanks to a stubborn bolt, we may have finally found the underlying issue with the 'fur ball'.  I have a timing set etc on order and am in the process of cleaning everything up in preparation for the 'return to the bat cave' --  to be continued in a week or two.   8|  Thanks again for coming out here to help!!

PS -- Barb took a lot of pictures that I hope Marc will share.. I was too busy watching the surgery and didn't get as many pics as I wanted.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Sparkys 88GT on January 13, 2013, 10:33:50 AM
We had to remove the timing chain cover to get the bolt out. When we did we found the timing chain damper was destroyed which probably led to the timing chain jumping at least two teeth. I am amazed it ran as good as it did. But as Laura said I think we found the "fur ball"!!!!  She probably won't recognize it when we get it back together.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on January 13, 2013, 12:21:47 PM
That's awesome wish I could have been their
Good call on that timing chain check Sparky!


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 14, 2013, 10:26:49 AM
Well boys and girls, it was a great Tech Day at Laura's Saturday.

Everyone got to dig right in and get this puppy road worthy again:

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Marcwork1.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Marcwork2.jpg)

Everyone found a task and got to it:

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/MarcSparky1.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Everyone5.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Everyone2.jpg)

Typical Fiero gymnastics - up, down, over, under - everyone now . . . ready ! . . .

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Everyone1.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Everyone3.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Everyone4.jpg)

One of my wife's favorite pics of Laura and I working! (I don't understand?)  :confused:

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/MarcLaura2.jpg)

Finally . . . and broken bolt . . . voila!

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Brokenbolt.jpg)

Of course, Tech Days are about learning and Laura's no slouch for questions or notes! (Though I did mean to speak to her about her choice of mechanic's footware)! (Beats Luis's "yellow" sneakers though)!

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/MarcLaura1.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Lauranotes.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Lauranotes1.jpg)

Now some have questioned our tech crews as traveling "Cartoon Shows" (Pappy's presence seems to bring this out in paticular? . . . but I digress).

Well here's picture proof to contradict that impression . . .

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Cartoon2.jpg)

No cartoon mechanics here! (That's a "fine" adjustment tool for those who were wondering)! Cartoon mechanic indeed!

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Cartoon1.jpg)

Good call by Sparkys 88GT to pull that timing gear housing both to get to the bolt, but also check the timing chain. As he noted earlier, at least 2 gear teeth out of sync on the cam gear.

We mused later over lunch what Laura's expression would be after that first test drive once the new chain and dampner are installed, and everything back in proper time! It'll be like a new Fiero. No more furr ball hesitation, no more lingering raw gas smell. Can't wait to see it.

A part of this Tech Day however, was . . .

        The Bat Cave        . . . . On to the Bat Cave . . . .  To the Bat Cave Robin . . . .   To the Bat Poles . . . .


(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/12BatSign.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/13LiveBatsSign.jpg)

Actually, it's more a Bat "Cage" - but that doesn't sound as sexy.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/6BatFlyHouse.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Barcave1.jpg)

Everyone, group up inside . . .

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Barcave2.jpg)

Yep Old Lar they really do sleep upside down.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Barcave3.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Barcave4.jpg)

Cute little buggers.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/17BatsinFlyHouse.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/18HangingintheBatHouse.jpg)

Look closely . . . yes they really do have fangs! MoooOOHHHoooooohhhaaaahhhh!

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/8FloridaBat.jpg)

Laura coaxed this "fruit eater" out with a piece of banana. Greedy little bugger stuffed a piece in his mouth bigger than his head!

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/4CloseupBatwBanana.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/3BatwithBanana.jpg)

No shortage of bat houses at Laura's

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/11SmallBatHouse.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/21BatCondowcamera.jpg)

With several "thousand" insect eating, Florida bats in residence here, no mosquito problems!  :P

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/20BatCondobylake.jpg)

The backyard pig seemed content (till Old Lar woke him up)!

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Backyard3.jpg)

And, as a special bonus, the first ever, public pictures of Sparkys 88GT 3.4 engine build.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Sparky1.jpg)

He just "had" to go Pontiac blue!

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Sparky2.jpg)

As soon as the parts are in it should be just one more Tech Day to wrap this up. This time Laura's going to do a lot of the work, and we're going to coach!!

I'm free the next couple of Sundays (sorry guys), need a Saturday for Daytona and a Saturday for the club project car.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: exoticse on January 15, 2013, 01:02:10 PM


Laura check your PM.  :D


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 15, 2013, 01:03:16 PM
Wow Marc, Great pics, thanks for posting them.  
Sundays are fine for me as long as the parts are here.  Just let me know what works best for ya'll.  
I'm in the process of cleaning parts etc and have a couple questions --
Most of the grime is gone, but there's a lot of corrosion / rust i.e on the harmonic balancer, pulleys, etc.  Can I simply treat those with rust reformer, then prime and paint?  Also, one of the pulley has a bit of a dent -- is that a problem?

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20130115130250_zpsf6c6f217.jpg)

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20130115130316_zps7c2d048b.jpg)

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20130115130452_zps8db742c4.jpg)

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20130115130529_zps8c0bad72.jpg)

Thanks again ya'll.  Looking forward to seeing everyone again!


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 15, 2013, 03:59:36 PM
Isfinn1:

For the crank damper I would just use a wire brush except for the OD of the hub that slides into the cover seal (that we discussed should just be lightly sanded). I wouldn't use any chemicals as the outer ring is bonded to the inner hub with rubber, and you don't want that to deteriorate (the common failure for crank dampers).

Then you can paint, but mask the inner and outer part of the hub that mounts to the crank and slides into the cover seal. These areas are a machined fit and you don't want those surfaces painted.

The pulleys, same thing, wire brush and paint but I wouldn't get anything in the grooves. Just clean them with brake parts' cleaner and wipe dry.

Here's some pics of the gasket sealer we talked about.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/IMG_4945.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/IMG_4946.jpg)

It's "old school" Permatex, but I've used it for 45 years (and no Pappy this can isn't 45 years old!) It's what I prefer. RTV doesn't really relate for this reassemble since we're installing new gaskets. This stuff is sticky and stays soft which is why I like it. Good for disassembly down the road. It's what I use for installing hoses as well.

Let us know when you get your parts and we'll see what help we can line up.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on January 15, 2013, 04:39:33 PM
Well you gotta admit it that can does look 47 years old   }:(

You can get a smaller tube of Permatex Laura, you don't have to have the 4 gallon size like Marc  ;)

However I like RTV - A LOT  :O
I like to use Permatex Black, Red & Copper depending on the need of the part or Pappy's squinty eye ascetic quality


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 15, 2013, 06:46:23 PM
Thank Marc ----
I'll pick up some of the gasket sealer (I agree with Pappy that can does look OLD).  I think I read somewhere that combining RTV with sealer works well  :confused:   I'll let ya'll know when the parts come in.   :)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 19, 2013, 10:31:31 AM
Hey Ya'll --
Been busy all week, but will be picking up the parts at NAPA today.  Still working on cleaning off the old gasket; has anyone tried the Roloc bristle disk? Thinking about picking one up....   :confused:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lM7IgqMAiA  

Marc -- the guy at Daytona Bolt said the bolts I purchased are Zinc plated (not stainless 8|) and should be no problem.  

Also, after all of this is complete, I plan to drain / flush the cooling system and switch over to the low tox antifreeze - sick of endlessly worrying about poison someone / thing. :scared:  :(   -- should I make any other adjustments to compensate i.e. temp rating for thermostat etc..??

Thanks again for every one's help  8|-- How does next weekend look?  By then I should have the gasket cleaned up etc....


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 19, 2013, 10:37:07 AM
Well let's see who's available for tomorrow (Sunday) say around 10:00?

If you're satisfied with the bolts then that works for me.

Just have some light grit sandpaper available (200-400) and we can touch up any gasket areas.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 19, 2013, 10:55:40 AM
sorry, but tomorrow is NOT good.  Sorry.  next week or after?


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 19, 2013, 03:13:10 PM
That's fine. That will give us a chance to get a few people together.

I wouldn't get any fancy tools for now. The stuff you need done is pretty straight forward. Better to spend your hard earned dollars on parts you need and the gaskets and stuff.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on January 20, 2013, 12:04:27 AM
I say get the 3" Rolok system - Those things are worth there weight in gold - I got a 3M 2" and 3" set but you can get a lot of the attachments from the flea market, Harbor Freight and Northern Tool for under $2 - They can also be used in a drill and make short work on tuff gaskets

You can get sand paper disk - nylon disk - cloth disk and that bristle disk  8)

They work great for polishing aluminum to boot

Holds right elbow out and places little finger to side of mouth - Muhahaha! Muhahaha! Muhahaha!


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 20, 2013, 03:07:37 PM
I say get the 3" Rolok system - Those things are worth there weight in gold - I got a 3M 2" and 3" set but you can get a lot of the attachments from the flea market, Harbor Freight and Northern Tool for under $2 - They can also be used in a drill and make short work on tuff gaskets
You can get sand paper disk - nylon disk - cloth disk and that bristle disk  8)
They work great for polishing aluminum to boot

Hey Pappy -
Cool, we also have an aluminum john boat we need to clean up so these may be perfect.   :) Having a tough time getting detailed information on them -- Tom has a 4 1/2" angle grinder -- do you know if these will fit 'as is' or is an 'adapter' needed?  Would the small ones (1'' and 2") work on a dremel??   :confused:


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on January 20, 2013, 07:15:06 PM
Nope they don't fit angle grinder or dremel  :(
However both of those do have similar systems  :)

The Rolok is more like an attachment for a drill


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 20, 2013, 07:37:08 PM
Shoot!   :( Oh, well -- we have a couple of cordless drills, so may  still give it a shot.  8|


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2002z28ssconv on January 21, 2013, 06:50:38 AM
I have used them and they do work. Just be careful with aluminum cause it's pretty soft and you can dig into it if you don't keep the disk moving around.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 24, 2013, 07:21:55 AM
Morning Ya'll -
Haven't had time to work on the BatMobile much lately -- I think I have all the parts I need, but still need to get the gasket cleaned off. Haven't been able to find the Roloc disc locally, so still soaking and scraping with that plastic putty knife -- feeling more than a little frustrated and way behind.  :( 
Marc   --- I feel badly that last Sunday didn't fit my schedule,  8|   Did you want to shoot for this Sunday or maybe next weekend?   
:TY:  Thanks again to everyone for helping me with all of this --  :thumbsup:


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: rpro on January 24, 2013, 07:06:50 PM
A single edge razor blade and a piece of 100 grit sandpaper will get the job done.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on January 24, 2013, 09:18:11 PM
Morning Ya'll -
Haven't had time to work on the BatMobile much lately -- I think I have all the parts I need, but still need to get the gasket cleaned off. Haven't been able to find the Roloc disc locally, so still soaking and scraping with that plastic putty knife -- feeling more than a little frustrated and way behind.  :( 
Marc   --- I feel badly that last Sunday didn't fit my schedule,  8|   Did you want to shoot for this Sunday or maybe next weekend?   
:TY:  Thanks again to everyone for helping me with all of this --  :thumbsup:

If you bring the part with the gasket to Marc's I bet Sparky would have that gasket sand blasted off in no time  :D


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 25, 2013, 04:56:53 AM
Isfinn1 I wouldn't worry too much on that gasket, we'll clean up everything prior to install. Main thing is degreasing, cleaning and any painting you want to do. We're going to have to replace that hub seal in the cover as well so there's a certain amount of prep to do.

Biggest thing for me right now is a date.

I'd rather not jam too much into this weekend, I've already got a crew coming over for the project car on Saturday. A week Sunday, Feb 3 I can hold open, and possibly the Sunday following. The weekend of Feb 9 is the Wide Track Warrior show in Mt Dora on Saturday (and also my birthday). I was hoping we'd get a good turnout for that weekend (and maybe some free drinks for me to celebrate. It's the big one, I turn 65! Then I have to start being like and adult!)  :P

This doesn't have to hinge on me however (though I really want to help get your car buttoned up). I'm hoping we get enough help to finish this up quick, get her back on the road and ship shape for Daytona (hint, hint).

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 25, 2013, 08:14:14 AM

A single edge razor blade and a piece of 100 grit sandpaper will get the job done.

Yep, finally got sick of the plastic putty knife and went 'Zen' with a razor -- the parts we removed now look ~ 90% better, but still need to do the engine side.  :P
We did think about taking it over to Marcs, but I hate to bother him more than I already have.  8|

Biggest thing for me right now is a date. I'd rather not jam too much into this weekend, I've already got a crew coming over for the project car on Saturday. A week Sunday, Feb 3 I can hold open, and possibly the Sunday following.

Sunday 03 Feb works great for me. I'll pencil that it.    :) This week won't be so busy and I should have plenty of time to finish cleaning / prep and maybe even work on some cosmetics -- I have a set of dew wipes from the Fiero Store I need to install --  :) :P
Again, I can't say 'thank you' enough :cheerleader:


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 25, 2013, 08:51:41 AM
OK. We'll set Sunday, Feb 3 as the date and see how many "volunteers" we can line up.

Possibly we'll get 1 or 2 who have done the dew wipe install as well, and get a helping hand there also.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 25, 2013, 08:57:28 AM
OK. We'll set Sunday, Feb 3 as the date and see how many "volunteers" we can line up.
Possibly we'll get 1 or 2 who have done the dew wipe install as well, and get a helping hand there also.
Marc

You're too sweet, Thank you!  8|


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Nathrak on January 25, 2013, 05:57:37 PM
Sunday Feb. 3 is the stupor bowl  :confused:


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 26, 2013, 06:00:01 AM
Nathrak you're right! Aaaarrrgggh

I "always" get the dates mixed up for that??!!!

Isfinn1 that date won't work out good for getting any help lined up (including me)!

The next weekend is Mt Dora and my birthday. I guess we'll have to shoot for the 10th and hope for the best. I hate to keep pushing this thing out but we're getting into busy times here. Really want to get this done, and before Daytona.

How does that sound? Anyone else got suggestions-?

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 26, 2013, 07:49:42 AM
Darn! :(   Oh, well.  That next weekend 10Feb will work.  However, my schedule is fairly flexible.... Does it have to be a Sunday?   :confused: Or even a weekend?  8|


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 26, 2013, 08:10:16 AM
Actually no. But during the week it would probably be only me! Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 26, 2013, 06:19:48 PM
OK, it looks like Old Lar and Pappy will donate time on Tuesday along with myself. If that's good for you then we're on for around 10:00 am and see what we can get accomplished.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 26, 2013, 06:34:46 PM
OK, it looks like Old Lar and Pappy will donate time on Tuesday along with myself. If that's good for you then we're on for around 10:00 am and see what we can get accomplished.Marc

Fantastic!  :cheerleader:


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on January 28, 2013, 05:20:39 AM
Any specific tools I should bring Marcus?


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 28, 2013, 06:03:25 AM
fierogt87 is supposed to drop off his tap and die set today so we can chase all the threaded holes. I'm going to bring my torque wrenches so we can set everything properly. She has a pretty complete set of sockets, but I'll bring mine along with wrenches.

I'll bring my timing light as well.

I can't think of anything right off the top of my head. She has some trouble lights as well so we're good there. If there's anything you'd use to do the timing chain cover and water pump, throw it in you tool box just in case.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 28, 2013, 12:36:54 PM
Thanks so much guys, I'm really looking forward to seeing ya'll tomorrow -- :)
Is there anything 'special' I should have on hand (i.e. supplies, refreshments, etc.)  8| :confused: before ya'll get here?


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 28, 2013, 12:39:29 PM
I can't speak for the others but a few beers never hurt!

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 28, 2013, 01:21:11 PM
Good deal --  8)  We always have Heineken, is that OK with ya'll or do you prefer another brand?  :confused:
I seem to remember someone requesting Mike's Lemonade (?) for our "88GT Triage" tech-day last year --- was that you Pappy?  8|  Any particular snacks ya'll prefer? :popcorn:


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on January 28, 2013, 11:03:17 PM
Yup Pappy likes him sum Mikes Hard Lemonade Mumm mumm good - I'm drinking one now :)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 28, 2013, 11:16:55 PM
Pappy - picked some up this afternoon.  I'll have to try one!  :pidu:


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on January 28, 2013, 11:25:00 PM
They Rock
Do you have an air compressor?

P.S. Last time I got smashed with these guys I woke up next to Marc who was only wearing a stuffed animal that he apparently killed and gutted, Lar was in a Snow Skiing outfit and I had on the lamp shade and a sarong made of old red shop towels - Oh and we were in a display window at Macys


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 28, 2013, 11:44:33 PM
Whooo hooo!  Sounds like too much fun!  :P 
Sorry, no air compressor  :( -- although Tom's been wanting one forever. 





Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 29, 2013, 04:51:58 PM
Just want to say Thank You to Marc, Pappy and Lar  :TY:, looking forward to seeing you again Thursday!


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on January 29, 2013, 07:28:35 PM
Looks like my next day off is Friday :(


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 29, 2013, 09:43:08 PM
Fridays good too  :) -- depends on Marc  8|


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 30, 2013, 05:48:07 AM
I think for right now I'm going to stick to the Thursday plan. Thanks Pappy and Old Lar, we'll see if we can save you the drive. I think Isfinn1 and I might be able to wrap it up. We only have the timing cover and of course, the water pump to do and then remount the details and the new hose.

If things don't finish up we can still hold Friday open. I'm going to take my video camera this time, and if everything works out will capture some vid with sounds of the batmobile purring in the driveway!  :O

I'll keep you advised.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 30, 2013, 11:50:13 AM
Hey Marc -- Wow, I like that positive attitude.  :thumbsup: See ya around the same time?


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Old Lar on January 30, 2013, 03:23:02 PM
(http://imageshack.us/a/img818/3548/006awn.jpg)


Woman with torque wrench...



Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 30, 2013, 05:15:58 PM
 8|  8|  8|


Title: !
Post by: Pappy on January 30, 2013, 05:17:04 PM
Sorry we didn't get it completed, good luck on Thursday!


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 30, 2013, 08:43:39 PM
Darn I hate fiberglass --  8} even had gloves on, but the thin cotton backside was no match -- what's the antidote??  :confused:  
You'd be right at home Pappy -- the smell of paint thinner in the air.  :)  Should have it all wiped down when Marc arrives in the AM --  :dance: Thanks for the good luck wish, we'll need it.   :P


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on January 30, 2013, 08:51:45 PM
For as long as you can stand it - Cold cold water to force it out of your pores 3 or 4 times

Then warm for a final rinse


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Nathrak on January 30, 2013, 10:48:03 PM
I've heard of people spreading a nice layer of elmers glue on the afflicted area then lettering it harden and then peeling it off. Works for splinters from time to time too. Pappy's advice probably works better but not nearly as much fun.  :D


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 30, 2013, 11:55:42 PM
Thanks Nathrak and Pappy -- slathered with neosporin then surgical gloves -- seemes to have worked.  Go figure  :)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on February 01, 2013, 12:21:22 AM
Got the timing cover and waterpump back in place -- yippeee!!
Thank you Marc. 8|   See ya Friday 10:00 - hopefully we'll have her all back together by the end of the day  :)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on February 01, 2013, 06:12:28 AM
I think about noon time to take a ride is a better plan!! 8)

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on February 01, 2013, 07:11:07 AM
Brrrrrr, I think you're right Marc -- so see ya around 13:00??  Hey Pappy -- you coming also?  :confused:  :)
Blame my memory -- I re-read the directions for the tensioner last night and we should have put it back on when we had the alternator off.  Wish I had remembered that from when Sparky was here.  8|


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on February 01, 2013, 07:50:24 AM
No, I'm going to be there at 10:00am again so wear your woolies. A few arobics over and under the car and you'll warm right up!  :D What I meant was by noon we're going to be cruisin in your car!

I think we can let Pappy and Old Lar sit this one out again. That's a long haul for both of them. We'll post the results for all to see today. We'll owe Pappy a day or two to help him get his car on the road with that 3800 in due time.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on February 01, 2013, 08:14:37 AM
Good plan, your optimism is amazing!  :)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on February 01, 2013, 05:21:14 PM
Yahoo!!  The fur ball is gone!!   :TY: :cheerleader: :dance: :pidu:

(more details later, gotta feed the bats ^^0^^)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2002z28ssconv on February 01, 2013, 07:15:50 PM
So excited for you to have a good running Fiero again. Kudos to Marc and all who helped.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Old Lar on February 01, 2013, 07:29:44 PM
Marc promised a video of the car running.. ;)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Sparkys 88GT on February 02, 2013, 06:41:59 PM
Glad to hear the car is running better. I just had a feeling the timing chain was bad. Ill bet it's like a whole new car now. I wanted to be there to help but had to work.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on February 03, 2013, 12:31:00 AM
Marc promised a video of the car running.. ;)

Marc did shoot video.  I didn't have my camera this time (only my camera phone and those suck), but did take some on Marcs camera -- hopefully he'll share.  

Glad to hear the car is running better. I just had a feeling the timing chain was bad. Ill bet it's like a whole new car now. I wanted to be there to help but had to work.

Sparky -- You were here that first day and I think owe you a pulley 'puller' (yours broke).  I'm taking back the one we borrowed from autozone tomorrow and can buy you a new one the same time if you'll let me know what it was.  8|

After everything was back together, we took it for a nice long test drive - all smooth and no fur ball!  It's like stepping back in time when we were both younger. What a huge difference.  
But, still a few bugs to work out -- When Marc drove, he seemed to feel it wasn't shifting right (something about the torque converter (?)) and alas it still smells like gas.  :confused:   He had his timing light and while Mark was adjusting the distributor he spotted an oil leak,  but he thinks (hopes?) it was an artifact.  Other than that we saw no leaks.
Still needed to take care of a few finishing details and some fine tuning -- so, today I installed the thermostat, the wheel well liner, cleaned things up so I could easily watch for leaks and gave her a bath.  I still need to change the oil / filter and flush the cooling system (will start using new non toxic coolant) -- but I've never done either one of these things myself, so procrastinated.  
All in all -- we are very pleased!!  Thank you to Marc and all CFF folks who've helped.  The original 88GT Triage continues to be a success!


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: rpro on February 03, 2013, 05:58:14 AM
It's great to see the car back in proper running condition. Sorry I missed part deux of this project, I was simply buried in work and trying to relocate to Melbourne.

Here is the link to register for the Daytona weekend. This is the high price you have to pay for all the volunteer labor. Haha

http://floridafieros.org/daytona2013 (http://floridafieros.org/daytona2013)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on February 03, 2013, 07:16:10 AM
Well boys and girls, you already know this saga has a happy ending, but you don't have the details, and I've made you wait for the final pictures and the story.

Waiting is good, especially when the story has a happy ending. Sit back, relax and let's finish this tale.

When we last left our team of intrepid Tech Day workers they had answered Isfinn1's call for assistance as she had begun the job of replacing the water pump on the bat mobile. A broken bolt was giving her trouble, and she was still diagnosing an elusive problem of hesitation, or as Isfinn1 referred to it . . . "The furr ball"!

When last we met, the group had successfully removed the timing chain cover, extracted the broken water pump bolt and discovered, thanks to Sparkys 88GT's intuitive suggestion, that the timing chain damper had worn away and the cam gear had jumped 2 teeth out of sync.

Isfinn1 was left with a parts' list to shop and some cleanup and prep work to do ahead of the next Tech session and reassembly.

Our story resumes with new parts in hand and an anxious Fiero owner wishing for good results.

A new crowd has assembled, with Pappy replacing Sparkys 88GT, who after a successful diagnosis of the sympton and cause, was now on tour enjoying the adoration of his followers, or as we Fiero owners have come to know it . . . going back to work!!

The day started off with some follow on to Isfinn1's cleanup efforts and some final, detailed preparation of critical gasket removal in preparation for reassembly. The bustle of activity was mind blowing!  }:(

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Theyrested.jpg)

There was also a quick trip to get a loaner gear puller to remove the old crank timing gear, and then several hours of work to reinstall the timing chain and gears, including a truly tedious bout of engine against mechanic establishing that final synchronization of cam to crank.

Here we capture a candid moment of Isfinn1 adopting a Zen like mood, humming her mantra and becoming one with the car. Ooohhhhmmm . . .

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Laura-1.jpg)

At last, success, as everything was in place.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Timingchain.jpg)

Of course, there was a break for Pappy to tour the bat cave and further waste some serious time playing "fetch ball" with the ever accomodating Otis! . . . but I digress!

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Otis.jpg)

While that day didn't see everything buttoned up as we had hoped, we arrived at a good stopping point, and I decided to take the timing cover and crank dampner home for some final detail work.

Here you see before . . .

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Cover1-1.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Cover2-1.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Hub1-1.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Hub2-1.jpg)

and after bead blasting . . . some freshened parts to go back on the car.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Cover3-1.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Cover4-1.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Hub3-1.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Hub4-1.jpg)

After some paint, and final detailing of the timing marks, they're ready for reinstallation on the bat mobile.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Paint1.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Paint2.jpg)

Session Day 3 finds myself and Isfinn1 working to complete the project while we give the Palm Bay boys a respite from the long drive North. We were down to the more routine assembly and a further chance for Isfinn1 to continue her training of Fiero maintenance 101.

A little hytach for the gaskets

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Hytach-1.jpg)

a little antisieze for the bolts

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Antisieze.jpg)

The steps ahead were pretty clear, and we went through the numbers (literally) of reassembly and torque to spec.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Laura2.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Laura3.jpg)

After a productive 5 hour day, we had the timing cover reinstalled, water pump back in place with sequential bolt torquing done. A number of minor brackets and supports reinstalled, and with only belts and Dodgerunner tensioner left to be followed by final startup and timing.

Our final morning session began with some cool, crisp temps and team anxious for results. Getting the AC compressor back in postion had some tense moments, as did reconnecting the belt tensioner.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Marc.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Hubtorque-1.jpg)

The first cranking elicited some "sputtering", but the old girl wasn't quite ready to start. In order to get the timing back at a reasonable base line after having the cam gear so far out of sync, we had to lift and rotate the distributor rotor shaft so we had enough "swing" to re establish the timing.

After retarding the timing a good bit with the new distributor position . . . "Vroom" . . . she lives and breathes again!!!

We let her warm up for a good 15 minutes, checking for leaks and following warm up readings. Everything solid, everything looking good, and finally she settles into a nice, closed loop idle. We prepped the timing light, and after checking and setting both #1 and #4 cylinders in balance, we had her purring at a nice, rock solid (I might add), 9 to 10 degrees.

Time for a road test.

We both washed up, wished the pig and Otis a final farewell and hit the bricks.

The shake down cruise ended up being a great 30 or 40 minute jaunt to God knows where . . . and my only regret is not getting a picture of Isfinn1's sh!t eatin . . . little girl grin when I finally told her to tromp on it, and instead of hesitating or balking, the bat mobile squatted down and took off. Furr ball gone!

Picures being what they are . . . here's some video . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5qr3-mHFl0

We ended the day with much drunkeness and debauchery at the renowned Osteen Diner where "everybody knows your name" and the haddock was to die for.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Ontheroad.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Osteen.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Laura%20Tech%20Day%20Jan%202013/Day%202%20and%203/Haddock-1.jpg)

Mission accomplished. Great work team and I can't say it enough, great call Sparkys 88GT.

Who's next? Daytona's not far off and as you can see, no problem too big, no problem too small for our Tech Team.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Old Lar on February 03, 2013, 08:21:31 AM
 :D :fiero:  I'm so glad all worked out well.  A real learning experience for me, and some maintenance work needs lots of patience and skills to fix. Great job Mark and Sparkys intuition to find the issues.  The car sounds real good.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on February 03, 2013, 06:00:00 PM
Well great news indeed!!

But an ol Suthurn Boy like me wuda went with dem Pork Spare Ribs over fish  :lol:

Awesome job and I too must compliment Sparky for the timing chain call - Hoo Rah Stump Stump Stump!
...And only Sparky will get that hehe


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on February 03, 2013, 07:36:42 PM
But an ol Suthurn Boy like me wuda went with dem Pork Spare Ribs over fish  :lol:
Now, now Pappy I'm an 'ol Suthurn Gurl' and that's my family you're talking' 'bout,  :naughty:  but you're forgiven and I won't tell Lina (short for Javelina) about your secret 'desire for her loins'.  :shhh:

So excited for you to have a good running Fiero again. Kudos to Marc and all who helped.
Chuck you were a huge help last year, so Kudos go to you as well!  :thumbsup:

Took the car out for a short trip today -- wow, what a pleasure.  :) Think I'll take a road trip to Port Charlotte tomorrow - that long drive will be the true test. 

Thanks again ya'll !!!


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: FieroGTLT1 on February 04, 2013, 12:30:23 PM
.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on February 06, 2013, 12:49:36 PM
it is so good to see your car is out of recovery and back on the road :).Need to bring it to one of the CFF monthly meetings  :D :fiero:


Thanks, haven't been to a meeting in several months, but definitely planning to be at Thursdays meeting -- that is, as long as I have a car that runs.... 8|

Drove down to Port Charlotte / Punta Gorda Monday and back yesterday (~400++ miles) -- car drove great, thanks to ya'lls help!!  But, I was nervous the whole drive due to two new issues = the temperature gauge isn't working (maybe the sensor?) and there's a pretty substantial oil leak near the distributor (photos below).  
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/0205131721_zps8a86f08f.jpg) (http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/0206130932_zpsc14e8bc7.jpg) :O :confused: Stopped almost every rest area to check the coolant and oil.  Added some of both before leaving Port Charlotte.  Otherwise the car feels great!  A little worried again about driving much and hoping these are minor issues with easy fixes.    8}


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on February 06, 2013, 01:18:52 PM
That temp gage worked at first and then didn't seem to want to. I wasn't sure if it was because we had the thermostat out and it was just running cold . . . Need to inspect the plug and then the sensor.

If the water was holding throughout that trip it's probably more wear and tear on your brain than the car! How was the tach holding? Did you notice anything with the shifting while you were cruising? I forgot to check the cruise control. Does that work?

I'm sure the oil leak is the O'ring on the distributor. A 50 cent item, but have to pull the distributor then retime.

We'll need for you to drive down to my place one day soon and we can fix those.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on February 06, 2013, 01:26:16 PM
sounds great Marc -- when are you available??


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on February 06, 2013, 03:22:10 PM
First part of next week.

Pick a day. I'll pick up an O'ring and check - I might have a sensor laying around we can try.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on February 06, 2013, 04:06:59 PM
shoot for Monday? -- meanwhile, nothing much to worry about?  Just watch it closely?


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on February 06, 2013, 04:11:54 PM
That's right, check your fluids, but if there's no significant loss you should be good till Monday.

Hopefully I'll see you tomorrow. Anytime Monday. I'm home all day. Just give me a call.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Dragon on February 06, 2013, 04:42:31 PM
Put the car on a computer checker to see if the the sender is bad or the guage.

The checker Marc used on his wife's car

Frank


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on February 06, 2013, 05:16:55 PM
good deal -- we'll talk more at the meeting -- :)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on February 06, 2013, 06:32:19 PM
Dragon I've got WINALDL on my laptop which we can hook up to the car and get the readings. I think first though I'd check the temp sensor. We pulled that when we removed the timing chain cover. It came out along with the brass adaptor.

Isfinn1 taped it and reinstalled it. I torqued it up and reconnected the plug after installing a number of harness brackets and relooming the wires. First thing I'd check is the sensor plug. The temp gage worked fine when we first started the car and let it warm up. Later on it quit working. Seems like a "classic" loose plug to me!  :D

Simple solutions to simple problems. Check the obvious first!

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on February 06, 2013, 07:14:20 PM
I checked the sensor first thing this AM, it was connected and seemed tight.   :) Maybe I'll go ahead and pull it / reconnect just in case.   :confused: 


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on February 06, 2013, 07:25:35 PM
You are so quick. I don't know how I keep up! Check that plug again. I seem to recall it going on kind of funky. I may have not gotten it on right and it worked loose.

Makes you worry about the rest of my repairs huh?

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2002z28ssconv on February 07, 2013, 01:22:57 PM
If you used Teflon tape it may be keeping the sensor from getting a good ground through the threads.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on February 07, 2013, 01:58:26 PM
I wondered about that but it's a 2 wire connector on an 88 so I figured it didn't have to be grounded?

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on February 07, 2013, 03:45:30 PM
hmmm.... it seems to work intermittently now.  I'm starting to think it might be the temp sending deal near the distributor -- looks like the wire connector is broken (?).  I'll show you at the meeting tonight ^^0^^


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on February 08, 2013, 02:17:23 PM
Nice seeing everyone at the meeting last night. 
There was some discussion that the bat mobile may not be locking / shifting as it should (@ 65 mph = 3500 rpm) and there might be a transmission issue :confused:.  Marc - I checked my records and the trans was serviced way back in 2002 (116,000 mi)=  'filter kit' and torque converter 'valve, switches, gasket'.  Time to do it again??


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on February 08, 2013, 02:51:48 PM
No, that should not be a "do it again" repair.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on February 08, 2013, 04:09:58 PM
Thanks Marc -- that's a huge relief! :)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Old Lar on February 08, 2013, 04:20:24 PM
2002 (116,000 miles)? :confused:


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on February 08, 2013, 04:46:01 PM
2002 (116,000 miles)? :confused:

she's closing in on 143,000 now  :P 


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Old Lar on February 08, 2013, 06:58:44 PM
I thought the car had less than 100K.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on February 08, 2013, 07:57:05 PM
no, that's the reatta -- it has 67,000.   :)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on February 08, 2013, 11:04:17 PM
If you can see bad wiring or connector then by all means attempt a repair - I know you can do it too  :)
I always say "If it ain't broke DON'T fix it"
But in your case it is broke so I'd say go ahead and do some troubleshooting and repair

On the TCC (Torque Converter Clutch) Solenoid - It can manifest itself in 2 ways

It can, like in your case - Fail to engage
OR
It can be engaged ALL the time causing the engine to lug and stall out

For your case try this - From a dead stop in Drive and under normal acceleration you should feel 3 shifts
1. First to Second
2. Second to Third
3. Third to TCC Lockup

What to do about that pesky TCC solenoid you ask - Here are some good write ups for your reading pleasure  :)

http://www.michiganfieroclub.com/files/tccsolenoid.pdf (http://www.michiganfieroclub.com/files/tccsolenoid.pdf)
http://www.fieros.de/en/articles/tcc.html (http://www.fieros.de/en/articles/tcc.html)

This one has pictures but you may have to click on them
http://www.a-body.net/forums/showthread.php?344-THM-125C-Torque-Converter-Clutch-Solenoid-Replacement (http://www.a-body.net/forums/showthread.php?344-THM-125C-Torque-Converter-Clutch-Solenoid-Replacement)

And Last but not least, the Ogre's Cave
http://home.comcast.net/~fierocave/torqconv.htm (http://home.comcast.net/~fierocave/torqconv.htm)

P.S. I know where a working THM 125C out of an 88 Fiero GT is - Not half a mile from Anthony's Pizza!!

I would recommend a transmission fluid and filter change every 40 to 50k - But that's just me




Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on February 09, 2013, 09:25:39 AM
Thanks for all the links / info on the TC Solenoid Pappy --  :) I'm headed to Marc's Monday for help with that distributor O-ring and to reset the timing. Guess the TC might be my next 'big project' (maybe after I figure out what the heck's wrong with that darn Reatta, so I'll have a backup car again  :confused: 8} ).

BTW - Happy Birthday Marc , hope ya'll enjoy Mount Dora. 


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Old Lar on February 14, 2013, 04:28:53 PM
Did the oring replacement stop the oil leak?  Timing reset ok.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on February 15, 2013, 10:00:56 PM
Yep i also was wondering how the Bat mobile is doing?

Any updates?


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on February 15, 2013, 11:26:33 PM
Hey Ya'll --
Sorry I didn't post an update sooner -- Just back from Charlotte County again and very happy to report no leaks anywhere!
Thank you Marc!  and thanks to everyone here - ya'll are amazing!   :TY: :clap:

Almost forgot to mention -- Marc also removed that broken map bolt and it is now correctly attached, plus he had me clean the exhaust tips -- wow, I never knew they could be so shiny! Will post photos soon. ^^0^^


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on June 12, 2013, 05:08:41 PM
Found some old pics I thought ya'll would appreciate --
The links below will open the photo on facebook, one shows my first Fiero -- a White 1984 SE, 3 speed with a sunroof -- a lot of fun, but a LEMON!  The other is an old photo of me in the 'bat-mobile' when we were both MUCH younger and all dressed up.  Enjoy!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4794792863143&l=597d39029d (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4794792863143&l=597d39029d)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4794793823167&l=75971080a5 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4794793823167&l=75971080a5)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates -- Ohhh, Noooo
Post by: lsfinn1 on June 27, 2013, 05:39:37 PM
Hey Ya'll ---
Well, Just when I was thinking, wow the Fiero's running really well these days --- looks like I have another coolant leak.   :(  Noticed it yesterday as I was leaving Walmart, a bright green puddle below the water pump area.  I hoped it wasn't me, but alas -- I had to run the heater to keep the temp gauge down and when I finally got home the coolant reservoir looked VERY low.  Haven't had time to trouble shoot yet, but will do some investigating tomorrow and let ya'll know what I find.   :confused:  Yuck.
Hoping it's something simple, like a bad clamp  8| 


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: dematrix on June 30, 2013, 12:31:40 AM
I use a UV dye in the coolant, all old leaks that have stopped wont show up under UV light but the ones leaking now with UV youll deff see. the UV dyes also come for oil, fuel, atf and everyones filmilar with AC UV dye. Dyes can be bought at any parts store, just tell them its for water you can also pick up a UV light there also . their cheap. .also a telescopic mirror will be your friend also. easy to see under and around objects with it.  youll find your leak this way!!!!


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on July 01, 2013, 02:24:38 PM
Found it!! Looks like the hose was abraided by the ac belt.  I think I can replace the hose OK  8|, but what's the best way to keep it away from the belt..?  :confused: and is there anything else I should do at the same time??

Thanks again ya'll for all your help --

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20130701144110_zpsc54cd749.jpg) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/lsfinn1/media/20130701144110_zpsc54cd749.jpg.html)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2002z28ssconv on July 01, 2013, 04:31:02 PM
When you install the new hose, you might be able to not push it onto the metal pipe as far. Also try twisting one or both of the ends to cause the hose to have a bit of downward tension. Unless your metal tubing is bent upward, you shouldn't have problems keeping the hose away from the belt.

In case you can only keep a small area of clearance between the two, you can also wrap the hose with something protective. But that's putting a bad-aid on the true problem. Just be sure to reposition the new hose so that the two never meet. Also verify that they are giving you the right hose. Make sure you don't have the hose ends reversed. That last one is highly unlikely.

Now that you see where the problem is, it should be easy to avoid it in the future.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates - overheating again!
Post by: lsfinn1 on August 05, 2015, 09:28:54 PM
Here we go again ---- another overheating event.. :(

First, thank you Marc for your advice when I called yesterday  8|.  AAA got us home safe and now I need to find time to troubleshoot the problem -- We'll certainly try to make it to the meeting tomorrow (in the truck).

Here's a brief rundown --the temp gauge maxed and red light came on while driving on our way from NSB, so we pulled over to let it cool down.  Called Marc for advice, then called AAA and had it towed home. 

Before we turned it off there were a couple of very loud pops, Tom thinks it was the boiling water / steam.  But, no major steam etc. or major coolant leaks observed when we stopped.   The overflow tank was full to the top and the cap was off (it has never had a tight seal). The coolant hose at the engine was easy to squeeze -- so it seems coolant was not getting to the engine (?).  The overflow tank is still full to the top. But, I just haven't had time to check all the hoses, sensors, etc.  The belts are fine... but,  the last several weeks there has been a minor 'slipping belt' type noise.  I fear the problem may be the water pump again  :scared:  I need to find time to fix it soon as Tom is headed to Sarasota in less than two weeks and I have no other transportation.   :(  Yikes, It's always something... 8|


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on August 06, 2015, 05:34:37 AM
If luck is with you it could be as simple as a stuck thermostat. It also might be the cooling fan is not coming on.

Check the fuses first.

Remove the thermostat (under the coolant fill cap at the motor), refill the coolant with water, run and warm up the engine. Watch carefully that it doesn't overheat. While running, watch the temp gage and see if the coolant fan kicks on around 230/240 or so. If not, shut her down and it'll need a more thorough diagnostic.

Fingers crossed that you didn't damage the head gaskets!  :(

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on August 08, 2015, 12:48:14 PM
OK, finally getting a chance to check the coolant system.  Removed both radiator and thermostat caps and found no visible coolant anywhere except the reservoir.  
Before adding water to test things, I have a question...  :confused:
Why, is the coolant level still full to the top in the overflow tank / reservoir?  Shouldn't it have moved back to the radiator? :confused:  
Also, not sure if it matters, but tho coolant in the reservoir is opaque pea green rather than translucent fluorescent green.    

Another question that I should know the answer to, but can't remember -- since I'm testing the system, should I just add water?  If yes,  from the hose, bottled water or distilled water?   8|


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on August 09, 2015, 10:56:06 PM
1. Nope - Can't move until motor runs
2. Yep it matters - Should be translucent - Not a show stopper tho
3. Yes - Da hose

Now that I'm landfill smart - Find out where your county accepts "Household Hazardous Waste"
You can go and shop for FREE paint, motor oil, antifreeze, car wax - All kinds of cool free stuff


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on August 10, 2015, 07:30:50 PM
update -- just tested at idle -- fan came on! yippee. :clap:  All seems OK, maybe it was a fluke?   :confused:


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on August 11, 2015, 04:15:59 AM
Not to raise any alarm bells, but if she overheated severely, something is wrong.

You'll want to do more testing and some short distance driving to be sure there's no reoccurrences.

The "darkness" of the fluid in the overflow tank would indicate some contamination of the coolant. Could be in the system itself, could be just a dirty overflow tank. Have you ever had the system flushed? The car is nearly 30 years old after all.

As Pappy indicated, not a show stopper, but it is an indication more system maintenance required to bring everything back to pristine condition. If short test drives indicate no further issues, she may have just a dislodged a "fur ball" of crud. In any case I'd add a system flush to the maintenance list.

When you get a Tech Day for the front cradle repair, might work in a good system flush and check as well.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on August 11, 2015, 06:53:53 AM

The "darkness" of the fluid in the overflow tank would indicate some contamination of the coolant. Could be in the system itself, could be just a dirty overflow tank. Have you ever had the system flushed? The car is nearly 30 years old after all.
As Pappy indicated, not a show stopper, but it is an indication more system maintenance required to bring everything back to pristine condition. If short test drives indicate no further issues, she may have just a dislodged a "fur ball" of crud. In any case I'd add a system flush to the maintenance list.
When you get a Tech Day for the front cradle repair, might work in a good system flush and check as well.

Thanks Marc - I had to add almost 2 gallons of water to the system to test her, so I figure I need to drain that out now and replace with fresh coolant.  But, I think it's been flushed a few times over the last several years -- When we did the fist tech day a few years ago the radiator was replaced (new / used).  Also, after that (2012 I think), Chuck helped me install a new overflow tank (which was faulty, but we JB welded it). Despite all of that, she continues to suffer minor / random leaks and issues.   8}  I've also (please forgive me) added Radiator Stop Leak (?) at least once -- maybe that's why the color is so thick?

My plan for today was to jack her up and check the hoses etc, more closely,  drain and replace coolant, and to replace the thermostat and cap again. I also want to look more closely at the belts / waterpump as there is a definite squeak that's nagging at me.  I think I'm also going to order a NEW radiator.   8| I keep procrastinating on that one...but, it's time. ^^0^^


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on August 11, 2015, 10:27:58 AM
The radiator at the link below is less$$ than the fiero store model -- what do ya'll think?  

http://www.autozone.com/cooling-heating-and-climate-control/radiator/spectra-premium-radiator/pontiac/fiero/1988/6-cylinders-9-2-8l-fi/6252_266534_0/ (http://www.autozone.com/cooling-heating-and-climate-control/radiator/spectra-premium-radiator/pontiac/fiero/1988/6-cylinders-9-2-8l-fi/6252_266534_0/)

Also, looks like no one has the thermostat in stock, so since i have to order it -- should i stick with the oe temp or go with another lower temp thermostat??


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on August 12, 2015, 08:38:51 AM
Has someone told you your radiator needs replacing? Pappy is not knowing

Thermostats are over rated in Florida - If yours works let it ride

Your link didn't work for me but I expected that from the liberal run AutoZone anyway

I'd expect to pay north of a hundred dollars for a decent radiator

Man I need a snikers bar (For those of you who get this hehe)



Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2002z28ssconv on August 12, 2015, 01:57:49 PM
I have a radiator for you. I might be able to drop if off this weekend.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on August 12, 2015, 02:30:24 PM
Thanks for the input guys --
Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, :confused: I was thinking since the car overheated, but the fan tests OK -- that maybe the thermostat was sticking or faulty and should be replaced? 
For the radiator  since the one we replaced my old one with a few years ago,  was used -- I thought someone said a new one may still be needed, eventually.   :confused:
So now I'm not sure what to do (except I need to replace the h2o with coolant and burp her).   8|



Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on August 12, 2015, 09:06:11 PM
I have a radiator for you. I might be able to drop if off this weekend.

Chuck is the man!


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2002z28ssconv on August 12, 2015, 09:27:20 PM
This one came from a 50,000 mile 88. I'd use it in mine before buying a new one. But you won't offend me at all of you want a new one.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on August 13, 2015, 07:07:24 AM
I have a radiator for you. I might be able to drop if off this weekend.

Chuck is the man!

Thanks Chuck -- Pappy's correct  8|-- but, why did you take it out of the 88? 
I do think it's time to get a new one.  Just not sure which one to get, so will probably default to the Fiero Store.     :confused:

I'm also redoing the hose (pump to pipe), as it was somewhat 'crimped' where we had to add a strap to keep it away from the belt.  Thinking that may have added to the problem. Still needing to replace the pass side coolant tube as it too has a crimp in it.  8}


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on August 13, 2015, 05:11:19 PM
Thanks Chuck -- Pappy's correct  8|-- but, why did you take it out of the 88?


Me thinks Chuck has extra stuff from an 88 parts car


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2002z28ssconv on August 13, 2015, 10:39:52 PM
Yep. I took it from the same parts car your front cross member came from. I already have another spare radiator from the 86 GT I parted out a couple years ago. No need to have more than one.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on August 20, 2015, 02:13:12 PM
Hey Guys --
Well, it takes me FOREVER, to do a job that ya'll would do in 1/2 day -- so here's where I am....  8}

The first issue to address was the crimped pump to pipe hose -- well of course, it has to be ordered from out of state, plus the cost of shipping, so I tried something new, a flexible wire ribbed hose.  The first challenge was the OE hose is smaller at the pipe end, so I cut a piece off the original hose and used it as an adapter.  The first time I put it on it was leaking at the pump end, so I also added an adapter on that end also, and now have my fingers crossed.  

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20150820%20013839_zpsz89r1odp.jpg) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/lsfinn1/media/20150820%20013839_zpsz89r1odp.jpg.html)
 
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20150820%20013652_zpsmo4efzv6.jpg) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/lsfinn1/media/20150820%20013652_zpsmo4efzv6.jpg.html)

Next I realized the reservoir hose was also crimped -- at the base of the reservoir.  So pulled the tank, cleaned it and rigged the same hose with a piece of plumbing to keep it from crimping again.  Still putting that one back in.

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20150820%20013630_zpsfs1gkiff.jpg) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/lsfinn1/media/20150820%20013630_zpsfs1gkiff.jpg.html)

While the reservoir was out I replaced the radiator to pipe hose,  I'd been meaning to replace it awhile now as it had a minor leak.  

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20150820%20013528_zpso0inzy2y.jpg) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/lsfinn1/media/20150820%20013528_zpso0inzy2y.jpg.html)

The reservoir was full of gross thick gunk, could that have caused me to overheat so badly? Due to all the 'snot', I used a hand pump to drain the system, added some prestone flush stuff and drained it again.  Guess I need to do that a couple more times, before I add the new coolant (LowTox) ??  What a PITA  xx(  Last I have a new thermostat and rear cap that will go on.  Hoping I can hold off on the radiator for now (thanks for the offer Chuck, I may take you up on that), maybe all of this will do the trick.  :pray:
Oh, before I forget, the oil pan has always been 'moist' -- I checked the bolts and at lease a 1/2 dozen of them were loose! 8}

Used high tack and hose clamps on all three hoses, hope it all holds ^^0^^ Still a little concerned about the water pump, there's been that little squeak.  Shouldn't the belt tentioner prevent squeaking belts? :confused:

All for now, gotta finish this puppy so I can run errands tomorrow (hopefully). Been trapped here with no transportation all week.   :P 8|



Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on August 21, 2015, 04:34:21 AM
Isfinn1:

Sounds like a thorough review. Hope all the "adapters" hold till you get the proper hoses.

The gunk build-up may just be old contaminates. Did you have any stop leak in the system prior? That can cause the kind of build up you described.

If you remain stuck for transportation let me know. I can find some time to swing by and help you run some errands and take a look at the car.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on November 01, 2015, 10:42:12 AM
Hey Ya'll --Hope you had a great Halloween ^^0^^
We'll the coolant issue seems to be solved for the time being, but now there appears something amiss in the 'front end'.  :confused: A 'clunk clunk' noise from the right front section --- something is just not right so I haven't been driving her.  I'd like ya'll to take a peak and let me know what you think, but I'm not sure if it's even safe to bring to the meeting Thursday.   8}  I was thinking I'd jack her up this afternoon to get a better look and then send some pictures.   8|  hopefully it's just a stick, but I have a bad feeling.  


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on November 03, 2015, 06:13:23 AM
You never know - My new car was making a horrible grinding noise in the left front
It ended up being a Styrofoam cup  :thumbsup:

let us know what you find  :)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on November 04, 2015, 11:56:36 AM
OK -- I found part of the issue, but not sure what's causing it.  Seems that the stabilizer bar (?) is rubbing on the tie rod when the wheel is turned out -- on both sides.  

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20151104%20102035_zps91ztpf59.jpg) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/lsfinn1/media/20151104%20102035_zps91ztpf59.jpg.html)

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20151104%20101614_zpsmfiqjmyn.jpg) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/lsfinn1/media/20151104%20101614_zpsmfiqjmyn.jpg.html)

There is some pretty major cancer in a few spots and a lot of rust crumbles out  :(  Do you think she could have 'settled' / collapsed?  (BTW -- the jack is there for show, it's not touching, just a safety measure in case the jack stands should fail   :scared: )

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20151104%20101706_zpswqkcfrfx.jpg) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/lsfinn1/media/20151104%20101706_zpswqkcfrfx.jpg.html)

What do you think my plan of action should be?  


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on November 04, 2015, 12:42:00 PM
Didn't you change out the front cradle on that?

Perhaps that's where the problem lies?

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on November 04, 2015, 01:36:34 PM
Hey Marc --No, still on the 'to do' list, Chuck has the donor cradle and I think he's been pretty busy.   :confused:  We did put a new bushing in the rack, but that's as far as it went. 
So I guess I shouldn't be driving her then? 
Actually I expected the rear cradle to fail first -- if anyone knows where there's a spare rear frame please let me know!  8|


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on November 04, 2015, 01:57:35 PM
Looks like your sway bar is a droopin

It has 2 attach points at each end (I can see one in your pic - nice red poly bushings too) their should be another just like that on the other end
AND
2 other small brackets evenly spaced securing it to the frame/cradle

However this all may be a moot point because it's jacked up and your wheels be hanging pulling it all down making it appear cattywampus  }:(

Oh and I got PAGE 14


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on November 04, 2015, 03:02:49 PM
Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but should i take the wheels off?
I did try to wiggle them side to side etc, to test bearings and what not, it all seems pretty tight as far as that goes.  ^^0^^
Whoo hoo - page 14! I didn't get it at first.  :confused:  If we combined all of my stuff under one subject I might have a nice long build thread well past 14 I suspect -- wow :O. Thanks for putting up with me guys!


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on November 04, 2015, 10:50:18 PM
Do you have ramps?


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on November 04, 2015, 11:54:27 PM
No ramps, but ironically I was just looking at some in a Harbor Freight ad yesterday.  We used to have some, not sure what happened to them..??.  Guess it might be good to invest in another set  8|


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on November 05, 2015, 04:10:07 PM
Before you start buying ramps and stuff let's try to determine just what the problem is. (I never liked ramps anyway, they don't leave a lot of room to work) (But that's me and my prejudices are showing - read that old age)!!

I'm not certain how you support an 88 up front so the suspension is under compression like it is on the road, but even doing one side and then the other should permit a reasonable diagnostic. Is there a lower A-arm on the 88 fronts?

Once the problem is known then comes time to spend some hard earned dollars.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on November 05, 2015, 04:31:11 PM
Should I risk driving it to the meeting or should I come in the Jeep? :confused:


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on November 05, 2015, 04:35:31 PM
You can try with both of them on the ground - one sway bar don't cha know
That's just my opinion and we all know that opinions are like noses and they all smell


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2002z28ssconv on December 10, 2015, 08:06:28 AM
Planning to replace the front cross member on Laura's car this Saturday morning. I can trailer the car to Longwood if we aren't going to have enough concrete to work above. Otherwise, at the bat cave. More details to follow.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on December 10, 2015, 11:15:30 AM
Saturday's the Space Coast Fiero's Christmas get together.  xx(

Going to have to miss this one.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on December 10, 2015, 07:00:48 PM
I have to work  :(
Would love to help
When will next day be?


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2002z28ssconv on December 11, 2015, 09:00:20 PM
looks like we'll start about 9:00 at the bat cave (Osteen)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on December 11, 2015, 10:19:07 PM
Thank you Chuck for posting an update on our plans -- and thank you for helping me with all of this cancer removal.   8|  Marc and Pappy - sorry you guys can't make it, that's what I get for waiting until the last minute to say anything.  8}  Anyone else that wants to stop by is more than welcome to.  :)

So, after the front end is finished, the rear cradle will be next in line.  I found one near Jacksonville through a post on pff.  We'll probably pick it up sometime late next week.   The guy has a ton of Fiero stuff.  If anyone else wants to purchase something from him, I can pick it up when we go for the cradle -- here's the link to his pff post.  http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/072202.html (http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/072202.html)

I'll try to take lots of pictures and post a progress report. Hopefully all goes smoothly!



Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on December 12, 2015, 06:49:16 AM
looks like we'll start about 9:00 at the bat cave (Osteen)

Lets make that 10:00!   8} 8|


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on December 14, 2015, 10:39:47 AM
Just an brief update and a huge thanks to Chuck and John for everything  :TY: I'll post pictures later, but for now here's a quick run down -- We hoped to finish in 1 day, but a bolt problem on the 'to be installed' cross member left us needing another organ donor and chucks parts care was the lucky victim.  So on Saturday the front suspension was removed from two cars (the bat mobile and the parts car); the transplants began early Sunday morning.  By Sunday afternoon we had the bat mobile back together. 
  replaced the front cross member, coolant tubes and braces on both sides, installed new sway bar bushings, new outer and inner tie rods, and new end links (replacements from Rodney I've had a couple of years). 
I have upper and lower ball joints from Rodney also -- but I guess they're a bear to install so that is still pending.  Also pending -- radiator transplant, and rear cradle suspension ---
I'll add pics soon -- Planning to taking it for an alignment today, but still need to top off the coolant and tighten the lugs.  Thank you again guys, ya'll are the best!


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 07, 2016, 05:06:20 AM
Happy New Year Guys --
Better late than never, here finally are a few pics from the front cradle swap a few weeks ago-- :)

The primary goal was to swap out the cross member, plus I also hoped to install a few new replacement parts during the surgery. When Chuck and John arrived with a replacement front cross member Saturday morning, the plan was to remove the front cross member / suspension from the BatMobile, transfer the suspension onto the replacement cross member, and install that back into the BatMobile.

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20151212%20113231_zpsjaqqrlzg.jpg) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/lsfinn1/media/20151212%20113231_zpsjaqqrlzg.jpg.html)
 
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20151212%20142923crop_zpsxc2vmx45.jpg) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/lsfinn1/media/20151212%20142923crop_zpsxc2vmx45.jpg.html)

Everything came out of the BatMobile OK -- but we hit a snag transferring the BatMobile suspension onto the replacement cross member. After battling a stubborn bolt and an issue with the control arm, Chuck suggested we consider another option.  The three of us  drove to Longwood, loaded the Fiero carcass known as 'chucks parts car' onto a trailer and had the organ donor in the driveway ready to be cannibalized roughly 2 hours later.  

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20151212%20164019_zps0oe6pksl.jpg) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/lsfinn1/media/20151212%20164019_zps0oe6pksl.jpg.html)

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20151212%20165556_zpsoldz6kgn.jpg) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/lsfinn1/media/20151212%20165556_zpsoldz6kgn.jpg.html)

There was a point where it looked like a junk yard out here - three sets of suspension, a car on jacks, a wrecked car on a trailer, and lots of scattered misc parts  8| --

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20151212%20171921_zpscvgodpao.jpg) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/lsfinn1/media/20151212%20171921_zpscvgodpao.jpg.html)
  
The donor cross member and suspension was removed from the 'parts car' and several suspension parts were swapped out.....

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20151213%20092838_zpsw3l19vz3.jpg) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/lsfinn1/media/20151213%20092838_zpsw3l19vz3.jpg.html)

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20151213%20094458_zpsyxsixjrh.jpg) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/lsfinn1/media/20151213%20094458_zpsyxsixjrh.jpg.html)

We also transplanted the coolant tubes and coolant tube brackets on both sides from chucks parts car to the BatMobile ..

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/20151213%20073609_zps6eo80ldj.jpg) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/lsfinn1/media/20151213%20073609_zps6eo80ldj.jpg.html)

Sunday afternoon we had the bat mobile back together.  
A huge thank you again to chuck and John for all their help!!   :TY:  :cheerleader:

The next  morning I  drove to tires Plus and asked for a lifetime alignment (if Midas were closer to us I'd go there!).  The mechanic was hesitant at first and pointed out how badly corroded the RR subframe was.  :O I told him I was aware of it and planned a future replacement-- he said I should do it ASAP as there was risk of collapse. He then shook his head slowly and stated  'wow, you're brave'. Certainly NOT what you want to hear from a mechanic.  -- 8}

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb471/lsfinn1/IMG_0177_zpsb6eynnes.jpg) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/lsfinn1/media/IMG_0177_zpsb6eynnes.jpg.html)

So, the  most important issue now is the rear cradle / suspension ---  8}
I picked up a replacement cradle before Christmas --   8| Yippee!


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 07, 2016, 11:26:08 AM
Great job group. Thanks for the pics.

A couple of questions?

Who took those great pics? I only ask because it's obvious they weren't doing any work!  }:( I know that's why I try to be the picture taker at these events.  8)

Also, Chuck and Jon, a lot of work! I hope you got some good compensation for all that effort. I know the last time I did a project at Laura's she convinced me to take home some bat guano. Said it was really valuable. All the high end womens' cosmetics include it as an ingredient.

I talked my wife into putting some on after her morning showers. She quickly ran out! (Maybe she was using too much)! (I know the neighbors' cats took a sudden liking to her first thing in the morning and she's not much of a cat person)!  :O

Anyway she quickly ran out. I tried substituting some goose droppings from my neighbor's yard. Took me months to recover from that fiasco!!   xx(

Anyway good job, thanks for posting.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on May 22, 2016, 02:11:52 PM
Hi strangers --Wow how time fly's! ^^0^^
I'm hoping with ya'lls help, we can start planning the cradle swap on the bat mobile.  8| 8| I've driven her only sparingly since January, but now have the replacement cradle primed, painted and ready for install -- what do I need to do at this point to schedule a tech day? :confused: :)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on June 08, 2016, 04:19:35 PM
 :confused:  Hello... anyone ... 8|

Been driving the BatMobile a bit, due to issues with the Jeep  --- but not feeling very secure, lots of creaking and groaning (both the car and me  ;).    Trying to put a new alternator in the Jeep, started yesterday, the darn serpentine belt is giving me fits  :scared:
Tom's been in MN, but will be back in a week or two -- think we can quick get the cradle swap before he gets home?? Was planning to go to the meeting last week, but when it came to the day, I spaced and totally forgot.  Too many things going on as always.. and it's pup season again (bats, not dogs). 
Hope ya'll have just been busy and it's not something I did / said / didn't do. etc...



Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2002z28ssconv on June 11, 2016, 08:19:28 PM
Super busy right now Laura.
I might be able to get something together in a few weeks from now.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on June 14, 2016, 11:44:56 AM
Sounds good, glad to hear from you 8) -- hope everyone is safe after the recent events  :(


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on June 15, 2016, 08:20:40 AM
Hey Laura:

I've got some open time next week to contribute. I would expect this project to take a couple of days anyway.

If you'd like to get things started, but not necessarily completed the same day let me know what would work for you.

The week after that I'm off to Ohio, then back again for my 50th high school reunion a few weeks later, then off for 2 weeks celebrating 35 years of marriage! (Seems like 50)!  :D

Anyway, summer's really busy for me but I can find some time.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on June 15, 2016, 08:25:21 AM
OK, I just revisited this thread.

Are we talking about the "rear" cradle? We need to be able to suspend (or drop) the engine for this one.

If that's the case we need more facilities than what you have at your place. We'll need to talk through that.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2002z28ssconv on June 15, 2016, 10:39:32 PM
I was planning on keeping the engine in the car so we didn't have to mess with fluids or wiring.
With a 20% coupon these can be bought for about $65.
(http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_11976.jpg)

The biggest pitfalls we should expect are the cradle bolts, exhaust bolts, suspension arm bolts and parking brake cables.


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on June 19, 2016, 07:39:49 AM
Hi Guys -- Happy Fathers Day...
Marc -  Yep, we're talking rear cradle this time..   
Chuck --  what is this contraption called, where do I get it and what exactly does it do??  Would it help if I start spot treating these bolts you mentioned (PBBlaster/loctite/wd40..)? 
 


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on June 19, 2016, 09:58:17 AM
I have one of those engine suspension brackets. It's a home built unit, but well constructed. It's been used on more than a half dozen Fiero projects successfully. I just need to retrieve it from Pappy's.

If we're doing a rear cradle my preference would be to have an engine hoist if we don't want to pull the engine. I agree it doesn't have to be pulled to swap the cradle. If we have an engine hoist we don't really need the suspension rig. It's far easier to maneuver the engine with the hoist, and the cradle and tranny jobs I've had to help with all required some moving of the engine to line stuff  up.

If we need to haul tools I have a hoist. It's cumbersome to break down but a truck would work to haul it. (Won't fit in the convertible). Space Coast Fieros also have a light weight hoist with electric winch. Don't know where it's at just now but should be able to be tracked down. That one would be easier to haul (still need a truck) and more versatile.

I guess the bottom line for me is the job "can" be done at Isfinn's place but would be easier and go more quickly somewhere with these specialized tools available. Not to mention "safely" without crawling around in the dirt while entertaining the dog and the pig!  :D Also did I recall we're looking at ball joints and struts as well while we've got stuff apart?

Just trying to figure what tools we might need before we dig in.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on June 20, 2016, 04:56:36 AM
Hey Marc-
I agree, we are a little limited for space here, Chuck also suggested space would be an issue -- I'm open to suggestions.   8|  Yes, I have new struts etc already purchased and waiting to go in.. the only thing holding that one up was the corrosion in the cradle.  Any other pieces / parts I should purchase / plan to have on hand that might be good to do when we have everything apart? 


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on June 20, 2016, 07:55:17 AM
Well, struts mean spring compressor (which I have).

We could certainly schedule to do the work at my place if the car is drivable and even if it takes a couple of days that can be handled. Also the bead blaster is here for prep and painting but the back garage is a disaster from our flooding and drainage problems. Need a couple of days just to clean that up.

Have a lot of clean up to do around here in general to be ready for some of these big projects. I'm still playing catch up after losing most of 2014. That's more than just "car" projects. There's house projects and honey do's.

Timing wise also I leave for Ohio next week for 2 weeks so we'd have to schedule it for July firm. After that I'm back to Ohio for my 50th high school reunion and then leave for Europe for 2 weeks. (35th wedding anniversary).

Summer is busy. I'd need some commitments and have some time to clean up and have things ready.

and then there's the inevitable BS I'd have to contend with for all my own Fiero projects half done!  :confused: I'm a big boy, just have to take the abuse!  }:( You can guess the names of those who would be at the front of the "Let's abuse 2manycars line"! (sigh) What goes around comes back to bite you!  xx(

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on June 22, 2016, 05:32:44 AM
Hey Marc -- Wow, you have a tight and very busy schedule.   :P  If you are willing to host the BatMobile for a short time, July sounds good to me so far.   Thank you!


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates -- TCC
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 25, 2018, 11:27:35 AM
Wow, time sure flies. 
I'm finally ready to dig into this. I have the new parts and plan to replace the TCC  and change the filter / fluid etc sometime in the next few weeks (TCC, solenoid, filter and gasket, etc), but it's a little intimidating and before I dig in I thought check with ya'll first.  Don't want to bite of more than I can handle.   :confused:  Should I go for it?
I think the TCC is the last biggie, hopefully she'll be back to her old self after this.   8| :)

If you can see bad wiring or connector then by all means attempt a repair - I know you can do it too  :)
I always say "If it ain't broke DON'T fix it"
But in your case it is broke so I'd say go ahead and do some troubleshooting and repair

On the TCC (Torque Converter Clutch) Solenoid - It can manifest itself in 2 ways

It can, like in your case - Fail to engage
OR
It can be engaged ALL the time causing the engine to lug and stall out

For your case try this - From a dead stop in Drive and under normal acceleration you should feel 3 shifts
1. First to Second
2. Second to Third
3. Third to TCC Lockup

What to do about that pesky TCC solenoid you ask - Here are some good write ups for your reading pleasure  :)

[url]http://www.michiganfieroclub.com/files/tccsolenoid.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.michiganfieroclub.com/files/tccsolenoid.pdf[/url])
[url]http://www.fieros.de/en/articles/tcc.html[/url] ([url]http://www.fieros.de/en/articles/tcc.html[/url])

This one has pictures but you may have to click on them
[url]http://www.a-body.net/forums/showthread.php?344-THM-125C-Torque-Converter-Clutch-Solenoid-Replacement[/url] ([url]http://www.a-body.net/forums/showthread.php?344-THM-125C-Torque-Converter-Clutch-Solenoid-Replacement[/url])

And Last but not least, the Ogre's Cave
[url]http://home.comcast.net/~fierocave/torqconv.htm[/url] ([url]http://home.comcast.net/~fierocave/torqconv.htm[/url])

P.S. I know where a working THM 125C out of an 88 Fiero GT is - Not half a mile from Anthony's Pizza!!

I would recommend a transmission fluid and filter change every 40 to 50k - But that's just me





Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 26, 2018, 07:30:00 AM
Isfinn1:

If you read through Pappy's links back in 2013 you should already have a good idea about the TCC job.

Gaskets, filter - all pretty much straight forward. Biggest hassle is draining the oil!  xx(

Now for the TCC, not a bad job in and of itself. Real headache is getting enough room to work!

When I did mine I had to pull the driver's side wheel, take out the wheel well splash guards and then drop the tranny on the driver's side in order to be able to work properly on that side of the tranny.  :angry:

It's a pretty big job without the right equipment. Probably should make a plan how to do it.

Once you start you're committed.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 26, 2018, 08:25:41 AM
Hey Marc -
I have  read the info in Pappy's links and printed it up, didn't see anything about having to drop the tranny though...   :O  We have a lot more room to work now than we used to -- poured some concrete on the camper side of the patio. 
I'll  let you know how it goes...  8| :)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 27, 2018, 06:09:00 AM
Alright, I've been thinking a lot about TCC's in the last couple of days (thanks Isfinn1)!  :confused:

Time to revisit the "dumb" questions (I'm really good at dumb questions).

Anyway, have you checked the adjustment on the TCC control cable? Might be a good time to clean it up, put some fresh lube on it, and especially clean and check the TCC ratchet adjuster and recalibrate it before you dig into a big project.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 29, 2018, 10:06:22 AM
Yesterday, I did successfully change the filter and gasket, but have not yet started on the TCC (other than cleaning some of the gunk off from around that side). 

Anyway, have you checked the adjustment on the TCC control cable? Might be a good time to clean it up, put some fresh lube on it, and especially clean and check the TCC ratchet adjuster and recalibrate it before you dig into a big project.
Marc

 :confused: :confused: 8| :P :confused: :confused:  8| 8|  ummmm????  I'll look into that....


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 29, 2018, 04:21:45 PM
Well, I looked at the FSM to reference Marcs suggestion and, well... it's way over my head, lots of greek.   :confused:

Quick question (might be dumb, but please forgive me)   8|-- I drove it onto ramps for the filter / gasket change.  For the next phase I need to remove the wheel, but my jack isn't tall enough to get above the ramps (at least  not without putting the jack on blocks and not sure how comfortable I am with that).   8}
So my plan now is to roll her off the ramps and then jack her up... But, I haven't added new fluid yet (since the TCC is next) ---is it OK to roll the car at this point; with very little if any transmission fluid? Or should I just suck it up and put the jack on blocks to raise the car above the ramps, so I can remove the wheel? 

I'm probably making it more complicated that necessary, but want to be careful....
Thanks, as always.   I really appreciate your help (and your patience).  Plus, I want to get this done so I can drive to the meeting Thursday ^^0^^


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 30, 2018, 02:28:52 PM
When you say "roll the car" do you mean under power? You shouldn't operate the tranny with little or no fluid.

If you just want to "roll" it back and forth by hand, no problem.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 30, 2018, 02:57:00 PM
Thanks Marc,  Yes, thought I would just put it in neutral and roll it off the ramps.  Problem is, I seem to be getting weaker with advancing age and so far, I can't seem to push it over the lip on the ramp -- really embarrassing and frustrating.  8| 8}   Tom is currently in SFL, he offered to help me move it before he left, but we just never got to it.

I may end up adding transmission fluid so I can drive it to the meeting, but then I'll have to drain it again  8}
Oh well, things happen for a reason -- or at least I hope so.. ^^0^^


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 30, 2018, 04:41:40 PM
Actually adding the fluid and giving it a drive is not a bad idea.

I didn't want to criticize your efforts after you'd done so much work, but I would have checked the TCC cable first - adjust - then give it a drive to see what happens.

If it's still not working properly then you could go ahead and drain the fluid and do all the work.

This way you'll know where you're at. A better move.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 30, 2018, 07:25:00 PM
Thanks Marc,
I'll do that.   Your input (and that of anyone in the club) is  certainly not viewed as criticism, after all -- you have experience and know what your doing.   I, on the other hand, I'm trying to learn and deeply indebted to everyone's help in keeping the BatMobile running.    8|  Wishing there were some Jeep folks out there like ya'll. :(
So how do I go about checking / adjusting the TCC cable?  }:( :confused:   


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on January 31, 2018, 10:37:14 AM
Isfinn1:

Here's the procedure from the 88 Service Manual:


(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Fiero%20Tech%20Stuff/88%20Fiero%20TV%20adj-1.jpg) (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/Gwain_photos/media/Fiero%20Tech%20Stuff/88%20Fiero%20TV%20adj-1.jpg.html)


(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Fiero%20Tech%20Stuff/88%20Fiero%20TV%20adj-2.jpg) (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/Gwain_photos/media/Fiero%20Tech%20Stuff/88%20Fiero%20TV%20adj-2.jpg.html)


It's cryptic to say the least.

I'd try a look-up on Pennock's for "Kick Down Cable adjustment". (Someplace I have a copy but no time to find it today)!  :(

What the cable does in fact is it over rides the TCC solenoid to prevent it from locking up.

As an example, if you were driving towards a traffic light intersection and the light suddenly changed yellow, if you "kicked down" the accelerator (mashed the gas), the transmission would down shift to accelerate and this cable would tell the transmission not to "clutch lock" while you were accelerating.

When the TCC solenoid malfunctions (a typical problem with our cars and this transmission) the opposite effect happens: the clutch lock functions normally (like a 4th gear) but then doesn't unlock when you slow down. The result is the engine stalls when you come to a stop as the transmission is "locked" in gear.

What I'm curious about with your car is the TCC is not locking up (shifting like a 4th gear) which is the opposite of the normal failure. Now it could be the TCC solenoid is indeed bad. It could also be a bad electrical connection or a poorly adjusted or non functioning TV/TCC cable.

If you look down on the top of the transmission on the driver's side, you should see an electrical connection going into the transmission. This is the electrics for the TCC solenoid. Right next to that should be a cable going into a boot/plug in the transmission, which is the TV/TCC cable. The other end of the that cable is attached to the throttle body along with the accelerator cable and the cruise control cable.

The trick is figuring out which item is causing the problem?  :D

If the cable is not adjusted properly it can prevent "lock-up" when you want it to, which is what your car is doing. Just sayin. Hard to diagnose blind from 40 miles away!  :O But I do my best?  :)

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on January 31, 2018, 01:03:00 PM
Thanks Marc, Yeah, I reference that manual a lot and generally like it better than Haynes or Chiltons, but this time it just reminds me that I'm really clueless.  So when you say TCC cable, that's the TV cable?  :confused:
I've been researching online -- Pennocks, Ogre etc.  and found several write-ups on adjusting this, but I need visuals.  ^^0^^
Added fluid this morning and pulled her off the ramps, but still need to let her run and make sure the level is correct.  I plan to take her for a short spin to the post office after lunch and will dive into more research on the TV etc when I get back.  Thanks again... :) 8|


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on March 16, 2018, 07:46:59 AM
Should have updated this long ago ---
I had a local transmission shop test drive the BatMobile and he thought it was shifting fine and that the rpm issue is the gauge  8| 8|.  I'm not totally convinced, but it's back burner again for the time being.  ^^0^^

Meanwhile -- Does anyone need trailer tires / wheels or know someone who does?  We have two basically new Goodyear Endurance trailer tires (205 75R14 purchased in Jan and driven ~700 miles).  We traded our 2004 camper trailer in for a 2013 and planned to install the new tires on the 'newer' trailer, but turns out it needs 15 inch tires.  8}  We paid >  $300 ($105 / tire plus the extras).  Maybe I should put this in the classified section..  I'll try to post photos....



Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on March 17, 2018, 06:30:35 AM
Hey Isfinn1:

Sorry I've been so out of touch lately. Hard to believe I can be so busy and "retired"!  :confused:

Have one of the "boys" take a drive in your car next time a few of us are together. The "seat of our pants" can quickly determine what the real issue is.

In the meantime once I get back from Ohio in April let's see what you've got left to be done and figure out how to get together and get it done.

Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on July 17, 2018, 07:13:12 PM
OK I have decided to donate my engine (& transmission if she needs it) to Laura

We will have to set up a tech day and y'all can come over to the beach.  Transportation for her motor will be required. We'll do the usual burgers and dogs.  Marc might even sing some old fashion love songs, who knows.

Sincerely,
Pappy


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on July 17, 2018, 10:46:42 PM
Wow, I just about fell out of my chair when I saw this..... :O :O :O
I'm absolutely speechless---- 8| 8| 8| :confused: :)
You're just joking right?  I'm gullible...what's the catch??

If you're for real... :TY: :TY: :TY: :cheerleader: :dance:


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2manycars on July 18, 2018, 03:35:27 AM
Always up for a Tech Day (schedule permitting).

As to any "love songs" .  .  .  .  .  :confused: ? Not sure about that, but random guest appearances have been known to happen !  :D


(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n226/Gwain_photos/Eric%20Clapton.jpg) (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/Gwain_photos/media/Eric%20Clapton.jpg.html)


Marc


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2002z28ssconv on July 18, 2018, 11:15:37 PM
Set a date


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on July 18, 2018, 11:21:51 PM
What is needed on my end?  Tell me more about the transplant  :confused:


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on July 19, 2018, 08:54:51 PM
No catch  8)

I have the following days off next week Friday/Saturday/Sunday

The week after that Saturday/Sunday

Frank wants the harness


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on July 20, 2018, 08:28:30 AM
Thank you again Pappy,
How much time will we need?  Days weeks? Should I drive out a few days early and leave the BatMobile over there in advance?  Is Mike's Lemonade still your beverage of choice?
 8| 8| :) :)


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: 2002z28ssconv on July 20, 2018, 10:55:00 AM
Woohoo
TECH DAY


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: Pappy on July 20, 2018, 05:53:50 PM
Thank you again Pappy,
How much time will we need?  Days weeks? Should I drive out a few days early and leave the BatMobile over there in advance?  Is Mike's Lemonade still your beverage of choice?
 8| 8| :) :)


I'm glad you brought these points up

I was hoping we would remove it here and take it to you or some place near you.  We will need a plan

Sadly I can't have too much sugar anymore, I can have like one Mike's a day


Title: Re: BatMobile Issues and Updates
Post by: lsfinn1 on July 22, 2018, 04:39:28 PM
So, take the engine out of the donor car there, and bring it here to install at a later date? :confused: :confused: 8|  OK.  How heavy is the engine?